1A vs.1B in Red Angus

[aj]

I kinda forgot how this worked in the Red Angus deal. Your 1A cattle are pure pure. The 1B deal is it a color problem? A 5 deal? Scurs or something. Will a 1B Red Angus deal work in the Durham red deal. Never thought about it before but does the Angus have a similar Classification? Had a bull picked out in a catalog then noticed the 1B deal. There are 99.9% 1B's and then like 98.4 % 1Bs. Thanks in advance.

 

[DL]

1A = 100% RA
1B = 87% to <100%

Not sure about the DR deal - know the Shorthorn has to be 100% would guess the RA would have to be too

Angus does not - has to be on paper 100%

 

[aj]

Thanks I was thinking at first in the durham red deal they had to be 1A but I was thinking that I read this had changed. For some reason the 1B deal kinda allowed an animal with wrong markings or something to stay papered. I know the Red Angus did have the % program(grade up plan) when they started.

 

[DL]

from http://redangus.org/registration/breeders-guide

RED ANGUS ASSOCIATION CATEGORIES
There are 4 Categories in the Red Angus Association of America:
• Category 1A
• Category 1B
• Category II
• Category III
WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION IN EACH OF THESE CATEGORIES?
• Category 1A
To be eligible for Category 1A registration, calves must be 100 percent Red
Angus. The calf must be solid red in color and polled with no disqualifying
characteristics (See Rules and Regulations, Section C). Birthdate, permanent
tattoo, and actual weaning weight and date weighed are required.
• Category 1B
To be eligible for Category 1B registration, calves must be from 87 percent to
and including less than 100 percent Red Angus and the parents must be
registered. The calf must be solid red in color and polled with no
disqualifying characteristics (See Rules and Regulations, Section C). Birth
date, permanent tattoo, and actual weaning weight and date weighed are
required.
• Category II
To be eligible for Category II, calves must be equal to or greater than 87% up
to and including 100% Angus blood content having one or more disqualifying
characteristics. (See Rules and Regulations, Section C).
• Category III
Calves that are less than 87% Angus blood content. (See Rules and
Regulations, Section C).

from the ASA
http://www.shorthorn.org/opportunities/durhamred/durhamred_opportunities.html

The Durham Red breed composition will consist of no less than 25 percent and up to 75 percent Shorthorn blood with the remainder coming from Red Angus. The parents must be registered with the American Shorthorn Association or the Red Angus Association of America. The program does not allow for blood from a third breed or of unknown breed composition. Breeders can strive for either more Shorthorn parentage or more Red Angus parentage utilizing a multitude of crossbreeding strategies to optimize characteristics from either breed

My read is must be 1A RA and 100% Shorthorn

 

[sue]

Yes.  Category 1B Red Angus works for DR. The DR program started with only 1A and then changed to 1B too. The feeling as I was told is a may is a RA breeder might use a "SH" on 1B and not on 1A  RA??? Good luck with the purchase

 

[DL]

Yes.  Category 1B Red Angus works for DR. The DR program started with only 1A and then changed to 1B too. The feeling as I was told is a may is a RA breeder might use a "SH" on 1B and not on 1A  RA??? Good luck with the purchase

How does that work if you are not allowed blood from a 3rd or unknown breed - or is it a case of the web not keeping up with the policy?

 

[sue]

The new policy was posted in the SH country a few times maybe a couple of years ago. Not sure why the new stuff is not on the new web page- pretty sure it was on the old page??  This all occurred about the same time we changed the word Appendix to Shorthorn Plus?  Greg Ruehle was executive secretary at the time..... This  is also  why you get a + paper before you get a DR paper and so on..... Now you get a DR paper but still do not get the correct REg/ epd information either ... so just breed them clubby and sell out.  Did I sound bitter or disappointed??

 

[DL]

The new policy was posted in the SH country a few times maybe a couple of years ago. Not sure why the new stuff is not on the new web page- pretty sure it was on the old page??   This all occurred about the same time we changed the word Appendix to Shorthorn Plus?   Greg Ruehle was executive secretary at the time..... This  is also  why you get a + paper before you get a DR paper and so on..... Now you get a DR paper but still do not get the correct REg/ epd information either ... so just breed them clubby and sell out.  Did I sound bitter or disappointed??

NEVER! Don't ya just love the various crossbred registries?!

 

[sue]

I used to donate to the Shorthorn Plus/ Durham Red Foundation and now it's the Shorthorn Plus Show?  All is fine but I was wondering what happened ? At least when you look at a Durham Red paper ( printed correctly) it tells you something.... 2 registered animals and the information need to make your next breeding decision. Pretty sure 1B papers have all the information

 

[aj]

Thanks. Sue I know when the shorthorn plus shows were announced, I assumed that that they would be Durham Red shows(kinda equivilent to a limi flex, or gelbvieh balancer or whatever). Of course the breed turned it into another genetic defect black heifer show. I know on the Durham Red deal you are upgraded from shorthorn plus to Durham Red once the th test comes back clean. You are not allowed a Durham Red paper till the mandatory yearling data is in also. Its mandatory performance testing like the Red Angus. So you can't get a Durham Red paper till calf is a year and a half old.

 

[sue]

I like the new name of Shorthorn Plus and  I love Durham Red cattle.
I spent alot of money on 10  1A RA females and have two left that really worked well.... nobody's fault but my own. You get one breed figured out and find out that all of them have feet, udder and fertility problems. The Shorthorn end of what we are doing is moving a little faster for what I want to breed and it's just because we have worked harder at those longer....
Send a pic if you get the 1B bull bought

 

[squirt71]

And once a RA is a 1B, they can never be bred back up to a 1A.  Made the mistake of buying a 1B bull a few years back,  kinda stunk that all the calves out of him had to be 1B even though they were out of a 1A cow.

 

[garybob]

Is white markings, past the udder on heifers and cows, an immediate "knock" down to 1B from 1A? Just wondering. Most 1B's I've seen have had some white on 'em.

GB

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Any white in front of the navel is an automatic catagory 2 classification. Calves born from these can be registered as 1A's as long as they don't have excessive white and are out of 1A parentage cattle. RW

 

[loveRedcows]

1A or 1B?  This debate has been going on for at least 25 years.  Way back when there was no DNA testing available a calf would be placed as 1B if it was the product of a multiple sire pasture even if all bulls in the pasture were 1A.  Some RA puritans insist that only 1A reds are worth having -- I don't agree.  Some consider all 1Bs to be impure -- when the blood content is 99.99% I consider that pretty darn close to pure!  Records are what is put into them....genotyping the NEW MODERN red angus might prove to be interesting.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I don't have anything against the 1B cattle, but atleast in my market and the sales that I work the 1A cattle are the ones that people will likely spend more money. Some breeders get along good with the 1B's and to their credit have educated their buyers to fit their market. I'm sure that there are cattle out there packing 1A papers that are not, but don't ever try to sell semen or flush those animals or the red flags will fly. I believe that somewhere in the maybe not to distant future they will require that the animals be DNA tested for parentage and defects before registration papers will be issued. Maybe when it becomes more cost friendly. RW

 

[Show Heifer]

If an animal is worth my trouble to register it, and "promote it", then it certainly is worth the $30-60 to have it DNA'd for parentage and defects.
Same goes when I buy an animal. If it is worth my time, effort and money to purchase it, it better be worth the sellers time, effort and money to DNA it. 
Spend money to make money. The buyer is always right.