Detour daughters pelvic measurements?

[aj]

I just noticed that a Detour son I was using seemed to sire heifer calves that kinda topped out the pelvic measurement indexes. Are there any Red Angus breeders have a opinion on this. Sample size 25 head......so its not a big sample.

 

[aj]

Hmmmm. Looked up Detours maternal calving ease and it wasn't good.

 

[HerefordGuy]

What about the dam's side of this bull's pedigree?

 

[aj]

Good point........I also got to thinking that I bred my Detour(purebred Red Angus) son to mainly purebred cows.......trying to generate the 50% composite genetic makeup......and thus these heifer calves may have had a advantage because their dams were purebred Shorties.

 

[librarian]

I've been thinking about the MCE numbers and they seem a little confounding because they are based (I think) on the % of calving problems in first calf heifers sired by a bull.
Those heifers could have been bred some unfortunate way that instigated calving problems unrelated to their sire.
Is my reasoning reasonable?
Common sense tells me pelvic dimension comes down thru the cow, so if anything, I would look at the MGS on your Red Angus bull.
I've also been wondering whether breeding for large pelvic is an indirect way of selecting for high BW? Where did a cow (say its a Shorthorn) get that big pelvis and why?
If one breeds those large pelvis cows to low BW bulls ( Lowline or Moderator, for instance), resulting in 1100 lb F1 cows, a sort will be required for pelvic dimension. I guess one must find an equilibrium pelvic measurement.
Even so, can the SONS of the F1 cows be trusted to breed their dam's type? I am dubious, thinking higher bw still lurks in the recombined genes, just as a collateral trait.
Opinions?

 

[aj]

I think you are right Librarian. At one time I had huge cows.......and I had about a 100 pound bwt average. Now by downsizing cow size.......mainly by using Red Angus(in my situation)......i think my pelvic measurements are going down. My ave birth weight is under 80 pounds now. But I do have bigger bwts floating around 10 years later........they do pop up once in a while........combined with a heifer with a smaller pelvic measurement I do assist 15-20 % of first calf heifers. The best heifer bull genetics are free of big birth weight cattle for at least 5 generations in order to not have big birth weights pop up. As I understand it the Red Angus bull Cherokee Canyon bull had daughters that had slightly deformed pelvic regions..........and this is something that no one figured out untill thousands of daughters were on the ground producing. Guess that is why I was trying to communicate with breeders on the Detour line. I doubt there is any problems but I was trying to feel out other peoples experiences with that line.

 

[aj]

I assume that pelvic measurements are something you cull against and not breed for. I know that there are some Red Angus and Angus bulls that have epd numbers that show good direct calving ease and maternal calving ease. But if you set up selection indexes and you select for to many traits......you won't have any cattle left in your heifer pens.

 

[librarian]

Sorry to DETOUR from the main subject, but have you used the Jordan Ohlde bulls Red Rock or Red Remedy?

 

[aj]

Both paternal grandsires came from the Kit Pharo line. I think some of the bulls do go back to Olhde breeding.

 

[librarian]

http://search.redangus.org/animal/1005282
Red Rock has a pretty interesting pedigree.
I'd like to know more about the 728G cow.