How do you select the bull(s) you are going to breed to?

[cbcr]

There have been questions about what bulls to breed to. What does everyone think of this bull, etc.

What type of cattle do you have (breed or breed makeup), and when you are selecting the bulls you are going to use, either AI or natural service, what criteria do you use in selecting the bull or bulls to use?

criteria such as:

Breed
Looks
Pedigree
EPD's
Performance info (birth wt, weaning wt, yearling wt)
Frame Score
Scrotal
or any other list or selection of traits

Basically, what is important to you when selecting a bull to use?

 

[flacowman]

for clubbies, in order of importance TO ME (since no one else will likely agree):
reputation
looks
epd's/performance info if available
pedigree
frame score(when available but it's rare)
and I'm not sure I've ever actually seen scrotal measurements on a clubby bull


FOR PUREBREDS:
Pedigree
Epds
looks(these 3 are relatively close to equal though)
scrotal
actual performance (it's too easy to fudge to trust unless you trust the seller)
framescore
temperament if I can find anything out


this just just my 2 cents but I sell mostly to commercial customers so I describe myself as a commercial cowman with purebred cattle

 

[Cattledog]

for clubbies, in order of importance TO ME (since no one else will likely agree):
reputation
looks
epd's/performance info if available
pedigree
frame score(when available but it's rare)
and I'm not sure I've ever actually seen scrotal measurements on a clubby bull


FOR PUREBREDS:
Pedigree
Epds
looks(these 3 are relatively close to equal though)
scrotal
actual performance (it's too easy to fudge to trust unless you trust the seller)
framescore
temperament if I can find anything out


this just just my 2 cents but I sell mostly to commercial customers so I describe myself as a commercial cowman with purebred cattle

This is close to what I do with my purebreds however they need to have the look before I even consider them.  As an angus breeder I think that there are enough Angus bulls out there that you should be able to find a balance.  Once I find a bull that I think will work phenotypically I look at the epds.  Heck sometimes I count on the cow that the bull will be bred to to balance out some more unflattering numbers. 

BTW, I also like to look at the dam of the bull to see what her udder looks like.  Bad uddered cows don't make it long around here.  I don't have the time or patience to deal with them!

 

[AAOK]

Our operation bred specifically for Show Heifers, so my Sire Selection was based on 1. Phenotype, & 2. Showring Performance off offspring.
My mentors were two long-time Show Calf breeders who both convinced me early on to NOT be concerned about calving ease, EVBs or EPDs, but to focus on breeding
Wide Hipped, Good Framed, Structurally Correct, Feminine calves.  This was accomplished by matching the weaknesses of each
cow with the strengths of the selected sire.   Nearly always, this philosophy produced quality Show Calves which became very functional Cows & Bulls.

I realize many breeders would consider this foolish or downright crazy, but it worked for us.  In 17 years, I pulled 3 calves, but also lost 3 others, plus 1 cow, when we were out of town. Our record speaks for itself!

 

[Show Steaks]

for clubbies, in order of importance TO ME (since no one else will likely agree):
reputation
looks
epd's/performance info if available
pedigree
frame score(when available but it's rare)
and I'm not sure I've ever actually seen scrotal measurements on a clubby bull


FOR PUREBREDS:
Pedigree
Epds
looks(these 3 are relatively close to equal though)
scrotal
actual performance (it's too easy to fudge to trust unless you trust the seller)
framescore
temperament if I can find anything out


this just just my 2 cents but I sell mostly to commercial customers so I describe myself as a commercial cowman with purebred cattle

Reputation being most important in club calves may be more and more true every day..
O and you hit the purebred cattle on the head, look at angus it's alll about the pedigree and the epd's some of those great numbered cattle you cant even stand t look at

 

[Cattledog]

I realize many breeders would consider this foolish or downright crazy, but it worked for us.  In 17 years, I pulled 3 calves, but also lost 3 others, plus 1 cow, when we were out of town. Our record speaks for itself!

I don't find this foolish at all!  Every program has different goals and plans.  What works in one section of the country doesn't hold true in others.  We tend to try to get everything calved out before March 31 because it seems that nobody wants a bull born after this date.  Other people around us don't start until after March because they have a hard time selling February steers.

You're probably successful because you've stuck with your plan and haven't flip-flopped like so many other people do.

 

[flacowman]

Cattledog the only reason phenotype falls below pedigree and epds is the fact that most of my purebred are not bred specifically for show, though many enter the ring at some point.  Usually I pick out what epds I want for a female and find bulls that fit the bill then the best looking one is usually is my pick.

 

[Cattledog]

flacowman, I really do wonder how I select.  I said earlier that I go off of look first, but I know there have been bulls that I've dismissed because something in their pedigree hit me wrong.  Some EPDs are so terrible that I don't even think of using a bull no matter what he looks like.  I like to show as much as the next guy but half or more of my calf crop is bulls.  The commecial guy is just as important to me as the family that'll buy a show heifer.  Now I kind of want to look at some bulls just to see how I process the information. ;D