I don't understand why; Can someone please explain ? !

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

Black calves seem to always place over colored calves ALWAYS, At least at my fair. Herefords are at the bottom, Charolais, Shorthorns (any color), Red Angus, and then Black. SimAngus seem to place very well at my fair. or any other solid black calf. My COUNTY fair seems to be more competitive every year. Cheating, Breaking Rules, everything Just to win the fair.
I really despise all of the competition.

If anyone could explain this to me it'd be great.

Thank you.

Lindsey

 

[Davidsonranch]

Hey Lindsey,
My kids and I talk about this all the time. And we have seen the same at times. I think times are changing with more kids taking calves with chrome, smoke or "something different". I guess time will tell.  We went to a show this spring where every steer in the show 40+ was black except one shorthorn steer.  He ended up winning or getting reserve. It was funny how much he stood out in a sea of black steers!  What I tell my kids is take what you like and makes you happy.  My kids are refusing to take black steers next year.  Its about the experience and time with your animal.  If you are out to win, win, win and start a calf business, well that might be another story  :-\

 

[heatherleblanc]

Just one thing to take into consideration, a lot of people who have black calves that have white bellies, flanks, or any markings, will just dye the animal completely solid black.

 

[kfacres]

Each breed has distinction-- and biasedness, especially those breeds who still have identity.  The Herf, Shorthorn, and Charlois breeds have had their own experiences and bad reflections in the past.  My guess, the Herfs on the bottom- are flat muscled, and narrow- and deserve to be on the bottom.  My guess is the Charlois who are slightly above them have tons of muscle, and no finish- the shorthorns who stand next have some finish and some muscle, and some eye appeal-- thus they are in the right place-- plus they've got tons of hair to accomidate that lack of quality.  Next up comes the Red Angus who are usually pretty good county fair type steers-- and finally the black calves who you can't lump into a breed with problems-- but yet they're probably composite cattle-------- who are the combo steers who deserve to win.  

I would say that if a fair had 10 steers- 2 from each the Herf, Char, Shorthorn, SimAngus, and any other black steer-- I could rank them by color breed--- and I'd be pretty close to getting it right-- without even looking at anything other than color...

 

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

Hey Lindsey,
My kids and I talk about this all the time. And we have seen the same at times. I think times are changing with more kids taking calves with chrome, smoke or "something different". I guess time will tell.  We went to a show this spring where every steer in the show 40+ was black except one shorthorn steer.  He ended up winning or getting reserve. It was funny how much he stood out in a sea of black steers!  What I tell my kids is take what you like and makes you happy.  My kids are refusing to take black steers next year.  Its about the experience and time with your animal.  If you are out to win, win, win and start a calf business, well that might be another story  :-\

My aunt keeps saying 'Red doesnt do good at our fair' or 'Only Angus will do good' I have like 3 red calves picked out 2 shorthorns and a hereford. I have been raising holstein show calves with my aunt.  My uncle and I are hopefully going to by 10 bred heifers coming up here soon. He said I can put my name on them and he'll be the co-owner. I guess he has to because Im 14. But I would like to see more color out there. Most of my calves will be crossed

 

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

Just one thing to take into consideration, a lot of people who have black calves that have white bellies, flanks, or any markings, will just dye the animal completely solid black.

Can you tell if an animal has been dyed?

 

[leanbeef]

As far as the color thing goes, it may appear that black cattle win because they're black...I very seriously doubt that's the case. A lot of people who show steers prefer black hided cattle, and I think there are multiple reasons. Black cattle are easier to fit because flaws don't show up as easily. Any type of flaws--both structural flaws that are part of the calf's design AND errors made in grooming & fitting--sometimes show up less on black cattle. There is a perception, sometimes valid & sometimes not, that black cattle may have better carcass traits. Black cattle stand out in a show ring against a backdrop of multiple colors. And it may just be personal preference... Most judges are looking for the most complete & industry oriented steer, and often, the kids who are most serious about competing, buy or raise the better calves, and know how to feed & fit them, are showing black calves. Plus crossbred calves (and crossbred could include multiple breeds here) are usually the most suited for county fair type shows, and those calves often come wrapped in a black hide. The SimAngus is a good cross, and if you find the right mating & do a good job feeding & fitting, they're just good cattle. Herefords, in general--and at least in my part of the world--aren't known for muscling & thickness, and most of them can't compete with thicker, fancier crossbred calves.

Most of us have a breed preference, but you can't blame a judge for a breed's shortcomings in a market steer show where breeds compete against other breeds. I think a lot of folks now are looking for colored up calves in order to stand out in a sea of black cattle, but you still have to have the traits that matter...muscling, finish, style & balance & soundness...if you want to be competitive. If you like the Hereford color pattern, try to find a crossbred calf that has that coloring & APPEARS to be straight Hereford...you CAN make those! Or show in shows that divide by breed so you don't have to compete against other breeds.

The point of showing is to merchandise our cattle and to learn about the industry from judges and other breeders. Try to understand why cattle win, and look past the color of their hide. I would bet if you could peel the hides off, you would be able to see the real reasons most of em get sorted the way they do.

 

[J2F]

If I may ask are you guys saying "Angus" because they are black?  ???

 

[chambero]

You are from Michican, correct?

First of all let's look at it from a commercial stand point - contrary to what a lot of people will tell you on here - the "market" prefers black.  Nobody cares if red/white cattle breeders like it, that's the way it is.  So, if a judge is more commercial oriented, if he is doing what he's supposed to and two calves are equal in all other aspects, he should be favoring black calves.  That's what the vast majority of the feedlots want.  Using Herefords for example, sales of commercial Hereford cattle have gotten so bad they are actually pretty hard to find.  One of the most famous of all time - Lone Star Hereford Ranch near where I live - gave up the ghost and got rid of the last of their Hereford's a couple of weeks ago.

The tendency toward favoratism toward black isn't as strong in the south as it is in your part of the world.  You are at ground zero for black cattle in the northern U.S.  From a practical standpoint, there are so many more of them to pick from in your part of the world that statistically there are going to be more good black ones than colored animals. 

Finally, as an exhibitor, it's not your place to complain about or change what judges want.  If you want to do well, you have to listen to judges/leaders/etc and have the kind of calves that they do want in your area.  Also, at the absolute highest levels of competition, there is not nearly the amount of cheating/rule breaking/etc that everyone wants to think.  And there certainly isn't at a county fair.  If you truly despise competietion, why are you even showing animals?  That's the whole point of showing.  If you don't enjoy competietion, you'll never enjoy showing.  Become involved with some other aspect of a cattle project. 

My guess is you don't really despise it, you are frustrated you didn't do well.  Good advice doesn't involve telling someone what they want to hear, it involves telling them the truth.  My advice for next year - go buy the best black steer you can afford and do your best with him.  Enjoy your project whether you win or not.  But don't fight an uphill battle by trying to go against what the judges prefer in your area. 

And finally, I don't think there has ever been a calf that won a county fair that someone didn't accuse the winner of cheating in some fashion or form.  That's called gossiping and whining.  Just stop it!  It's not becoming of anyone to whine.  If you really believed it, go report it to the show officials. 

I wrote the original post before I saw some of your additional information.  One of the biggest mistakes you can make is having too many show calves.  The last place calf will eat just as much feed as the first place.  If your goal is really to do well at your county fair - get one calf.  Take the money you'd spend buying the others (I'm guessing at market price) and feeding them and you could go buy a really good steer somewhere.  If you can spend $1,000 above market price, you can usually find a pretty good one somewhere.  Listen to your aunt.  If doing well at the show is not your primary goal - that's fine to.  But don't get down about doing poorly and gripe about it.  You have to be focused and concentrate on your primary goal with anything in life.

 

[kfacres]

at our county fair those who put the work in to train hair, fit, and feed correctly-- are the cheators year after year...

O, and the biggest "cheator" aclaimation:  "You're on a judging team and know where to buy those high quality animals", or "You know the judge because you travel to a bunch of shows and show against them, know of them, or judged against them".  

FACE IT, if someone is gearing to win a county fair-- they won't know how to CHEAT. 

 

[Ohio1]

Just one thing to take into consideration, a lot of people who have black calves that have white bellies, flanks, or any markings, will just dye the animal completely solid black.

Can you tell if an animal has been dyed?

You can't tell that the animal is dyed until they take a hair sample and see what's in it. but you can tell if it's painted

 

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

You are from Michican, correct?

First of all let's look at it from a commercial stand point - contrary to what a lot of people will tell you on here - the "market" prefers black.  Nobody cares if red/white cattle breeders like it, that's the way it is.  So, if a judge is more commercial oriented, if he is doing what he's supposed to and two calves are equal in all other aspects, he should be favoring black calves.  That's what the vast majority of the feedlots want.  Using Herefords for example, sales of commercial Hereford cattle have gotten so bad they are actually pretty hard to find.  One of the most famous of all time - Lone Star Hereford Ranch near where I live - gave up the ghost and got rid of the last of their Hereford's a couple of weeks ago.

The tendency toward favoratism toward black isn't as strong in the south as it is in your part of the world.  You are at ground zero for black cattle in the northern U.S.  From a practical standpoint, there are so many more of them to pick from in your part of the world that statistically there are going to be more good black ones than colored animals.  

Finally, as an exhibitor, it's not your place to complain about or change what judges want.  If you want to do well, you have to listen to judges/leaders/etc and have the kind of calves that they do want in your area.  Also, at the absolute highest levels of competition, there is not nearly the amount of cheating/rule breaking/etc that everyone wants to think.  And there certainly isn't at a county fair.  If you truly despise competietion, why are you even showing animals?  That's the whole point of showing.  If you don't enjoy competietion, you'll never enjoy showing.  Become involved with some other aspect of a cattle project.  

My guess is you don't really despise it, you are frustrated you didn't do well.  Good advice doesn't involve telling someone what they want to hear, it involves telling them the truth.  My advice for next year - go buy the best black steer you can afford and do your best with him.  Enjoy your project whether you win or not.  But don't fight an uphill battle by trying to go against what the judges prefer in your area.  

And finally, I don't think there has ever been a calf that won a county fair that someone didn't accuse the winner of cheating in some fashion or form.  That's called gossiping and whining.  Just stop it!  It's not becoming of anyone to whine.  If you really believed it, go report it to the show officials.  

Thank you! I guess I really dont despise competition its just so intense at a little fair. I really understand what your saying. This is my very first year with a beef steer. Ive only shown dairy feeders. SO thank you for taking your time and explaining this to me.  I have enjoyed my time with my steer and only paid $725 for him. Hes a pretty nice commercial steer. I will get pics of him asap

 

[Ohio1]

at our county fair those who put the work in to train hair, fit, and feed correctly-- are the cheators year after year...

O, and the biggest "cheator" aclaimation:  "You're on a judging team and know where to buy those high quality animals", or "You know the judge because you travel to a bunch of shows and show against them, know of them, or judged against them".  

FACE IT, if someone is gearing to win a county fair-- they won't know how to CHEAT. 

x2
Anyone in my county who goes to more shows than the fair  or has hair on there calves are cheaters, gets really old

 

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

at our county fair those who put the work in to train hair, fit, and feed correctly-- are the cheators year after year...

O, and the biggest "cheator" aclaimation:  "You're on a judging team and know where to buy those high quality animals", or "You know the judge because you travel to a bunch of shows and show against them, know of them, or judged against them".  

FACE IT, if someone is gearing to win a county fair-- they won't know how to CHEAT. 

x2
Anyone in my county who goes to more shows than the fair  or has hair on there calves are cheaters, gets really old

I guess what i mean by cheating is Not doing any of the work yourself. Their parents do everything for them. The exhibitor just shows the animal. How do I know this? Ive talked with many of 'the so called cheaters' and have been to their farm. I have seen and heard what is going on  (argue)

 

[kfacres]

at our county fair those who put the work in to train hair, fit, and feed correctly-- are the cheators year after year...

O, and the biggest "cheator" aclaimation:  "You're on a judging team and know where to buy those high quality animals", or "You know the judge because you travel to a bunch of shows and show against them, know of them, or judged against them". 

FACE IT, if someone is gearing to win a county fair-- they won't know how to CHEAT. 

x2
Anyone in my county who goes to more shows than the fair  or has hair on there calves are cheaters, gets really old

I guess what i mean by cheating is Not doing any of the work yourself. Their parents do everything for them. The exhibitor just shows the animal. How do I know this? Ive talked with many of 'the so called cheaters' and have been to their farm. I have seen and heard what is going on  (argue)

I would guess that over 75% of hte 4H projects in the US, are nothing more than an extension from the parent's 4H careers.  Kids don't care, it's the parent reliving it again...  There is nothing in the 4H rules of any state, saying that the parents and direct close family members cannot help with the project.  The rules do state that professional fitters cannot help....  Who's to stop them from getting the animal fit up the fair before, and just touching it up for county?  Who's to stop me from helping my cousin fit-- when I get paid on a weekly basis to fit for other people-- am I a Pro, or a family member?  Cheator in most people's books b/c I care to learn how to fit and do things the right way.  Wheras I just call everyone else lazy.

to go one step further-- most of these kids who don't care and parent's do all the work-- will drop out of 4H by high school-- atleast they always do around here.. High school is when the kids who care really shine.

 

[LindseysMaine_Angus]

at our county fair those who put the work in to train hair, fit, and feed correctly-- are the cheators year after year...

O, and the biggest "cheator" aclaimation:  "You're on a judging team and know where to buy those high quality animals", or "You know the judge because you travel to a bunch of shows and show against them, know of them, or judged against them". 

FACE IT, if someone is gearing to win a county fair-- they won't know how to CHEAT. 

x2
Anyone in my county who goes to more shows than the fair  or has hair on there calves are cheaters, gets really old

I guess what i mean by cheating is Not doing any of the work yourself. Their parents do everything for them. The exhibitor just shows the animal. How do I know this? Ive talked with many of 'the so called cheaters' and have been to their farm. I have seen and heard what is going on  (argue)

I would guess that over 75% of hte 4H projects in the US, are nothing more than an extension from the parent's 4H careers.  Kids don't care, it's the parent reliving it again...  There is nothing in the 4H rules of any state, saying that the parents and direct close family members cannot help with the project.  The rules do state that professional fitters cannot help....  Who's to stop them from getting the animal fit up the fair before, and just touching it up for county?  Who's to stop me from helping my cousin fit-- when I get paid on a weekly basis to fit for other people-- am I a Pro, or a family member?  Cheator in most people's books b/c I care to learn how to fit and do things the right way.  Wheras I just call everyone else lazy.

to go one step further-- most of these kids who don't care and parent's do all the work-- will drop out of 4H by high school-- atleast they always do around here.. High school is when the kids who care really shine.

Its almost exactly the same here!

 

[chambero]

Thank you! I guess I really dont despise competition its just so intense at a little fair. I really understand what your saying. This is my very first year with a beef steer. Ive only shown dairy feeders. SO thank you for taking your time and explaining this to me.  I have enjoyed my time with my steer and only paid $725 for him. Hes a pretty nice commercial steer. I will get pics of him asap

Showing steers and winning with them is not easy.  That's what makes it worth doing.  I'm not trying to be mean, but if this is your first year do not listen to the griping and whining done by others.  You don't have enough experience yet to know what's cheating and what's not and who is doing what taking care of steers.  It is not an advantage for someone else to take care of your steer.

I'll use my own family as an example.  I grew up showing and we throw a lot of resources (manily investment in our own cattle) at it.  My boys have had some success at fairly high levels in TX.  We broke through something of a wall for us last year.  We made the sale with two steers at Texas majors and we just won the biggest prospect show in the country (at least under one of two judges).  Why?  Because I spent more money than ever before - not at all.  Did we figure out how to cheat?  Nope.  It's because my kids got old enough and experienced enough to take full advantage of having good calves.  My wife and I help, but my kids are now big enough to do the vast majority of the work.  I'm really busy with my job and I'll go two or three weeks without touching my kids calves.  Why is that good - because the steers bond with my kids - not me.  And they can show them a lot better for it.  And if you have a good one and you can show it - you win.

 

[CAB]

Thank you! I guess I really don't despise competition its just so intense at a little fair. I really understand what your saying. This is my very first year with a beef steer. Ive only shown dairy feeders. SO thank you for taking your time and explaining this to me.  I have enjoyed my time with my steer and only paid $725 for him. Hes a pretty nice commercial steer. I will get pics of him asap

Showing steers and winning with them is not easy.  That's what makes it worth doing.  I'm not trying to be mean, but if this is your first year do not listen to the griping and whining done by others.  You don't have enough experience yet to know what's cheating and what's not and who is doing what taking care of steers.  It is not an advantage for someone else to take care of your steer.

I'll use my own family as an example.  I grew up showing and we throw a lot of resources (manily investment in our own cattle) at it.  My boys have had some success at fairly high levels in TX.  We broke through something of a wall for us last year.  We made the sale with two steers at Texas majors and we just won the biggest prospect show in the country (at least under one of two judges).  Why?  Because I spent more money than ever before - not at all.  Did we figure out how to cheat?  Nope.  It's because my kids got old enough and experienced enough to take full advantage of having good calves.  My wife and I help, but my kids are now big enough to do the vast majority of the work.  I'm really busy with my job and I'll go two or three weeks without touching my kids calves.  Why is that good - because the steers bond with my kids - not me.  And they can show them a lot better for it.  And if you have a good one and you can show it - you win.

Lindsey soak as much info & advice up that you can from this man. He has a lifetime of experience & knowledge to share and has a great way of getting his point across to PPL.

 

[chambero]

And by the way, we've still never had Grand Champion at our county fair! 

 

[DLD]

Others have said it well here, but I'm going to add a couple of thoughts.  If you want to win, you need to watch the winners and do what they do - meaning try to buy the same type of calves, feed the same kind of feed, and put in the same kind of effort.  Don't be offended by their success, try to learn from it.  Don't be afraid to ask questions - most people in this business are generally happy to help you out, especially when you're first getting started. 

The situation with breeds is much different here than where you are - I know it's easy to see all the cool looking breed and colored steers pictured on this site and many others, and wonder why they don't get along the same way there.  At most county shows in this part of the world, the breed shows (Hereford, Shorthorn, Angus) are competitive, and many counties are won by a "breed" steer (or a red or grey/yellow crossbred).  We show a lot of these ourselves, but if it takes a black crossbred steer to win where you are, and you want to win, then you need a black crossbred.  Like Chambero said, don't overload yourself, buy one good one, maybe a second cheaper "buddy" for him, and put all your effort into having the best one you can.