Is it just me?

[Telos]

I enjoy looking at photos of potential breeding bulls and donor cows but I can no longer see them. They have become the work of a skilled technician and change as you please enhancing. They just might as well have a kit with your basic prototype bull and cow that says 'make me perfect'. You could put as much muscle, clean up the front end, make them as deep and soggy as you'd like. Maybe you could even make a solid black one into a baldy is you wish. I don't mind a little smoothing up over the top line but many of these photos are getting a bit overdone and everything is looking the same to me. Am I being too critical?

 

[Bawndoh]

Yeah I wanted to start a topic about something related to this.  It seems that the showring, and the cattle photography area's are pushing the limits.  People are trying to grow SOOO much hair, in order to "hide/mask" problems when they go to fit or clip them.  The thing is, it seems like there is getting to be so much hair, or feed enhancements, or surgeries, or injections, that it seems like were starting with a cube of butter, then just sculpting/feeding/clipping/and positioning them in a way that is unrealistic.  Anyhow, my final sentence is going to be this.  The industry is using show prep as botox and plastic surgery, when it should really be like mascara and lipstick.

 

[Show Dad]

Here, here! (thumbsup)

 

[Jill]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think he is talking about show prep, or hair, I think he is talking about Photoshop.
I don't mind taking a halter out, or cleaning up shadows in the background, but to me when you start enhancing the appearance of a bull that is called FRAUD.  It is kind of suprising to me that the crap that goes on in this business there aren't more lawsuits out there, it's called false advertising no matter how you look at it.

 

[RSC]

I enjoy looking at photos of potential breeding bulls and donor cows but I can no longer see them. They have become the work of a skilled technician and change as you please enhancing. They just might as well have a kit with your basic prototype bull and cow that says 'make me perfect'. You could put as much muscle, clean up the front end, make them as deep and soggy as you'd like. Maybe you could even make a solid black one into a baldy is you wish. I don't mind a little smoothing up over the top line but many of these photos are getting a bit overdone and everything is looking the same to me. Am I being too critical?

I remember few years back when the first pictures with cattle standing perfectly with the halter cleane off,  it was like how did they get them to stand perfectly withought a halter?  Now it's the norm.  It is getting hard to judge a bull or donor by the picture because the pictures are all perfect.  You will always have the great fitjobs that are tough to look through.

It's my belief, that it will get easier to look at them, in a few years.  Technology led us to altered pictures and it will lead us to better things.  There are only a few that are on video now and I believe as it gets easier to do, most will be on video.  I don't think you will be able to alter or hide as much with a video.  If it can be done, I am sure there are some in our industry that will get it figured out.

Telos, it's a great topic.  I love my fit up perfectly cattle as much as anyone.  In this last SC, it was a breath of fresh air to comb through all the perfect pictures of all the Bulls and show calves and then flip to Gregory's ad for their fall calves.  They have some awesome calves in their ad that aren't clipped.  I was just talking about this the other day,  it wouild be nice to get the fall sales back to seeing them for what they are withought the clipjobs.  I am not sure I am ready to do it, though!

RSC

 

[kanshow]

I have a problem with fixing pictures too.  There is fine line between cleaning up the  picture, removing the halter, and completely changing the animal.  I know it happens.  Some of the fixers (what do you call these people?)  are getting so good it is hard to detect if there has been a change made.

Part of the problem is that the magazine's are actually promoting submission of electronic ads.  It is easier for them if you submit print ready art work.     Obviously websites are the same way.     

ETA:  Here's a thought...  we got a sale catalog earlier this spring, pictures were obviously untouched so I completely disregarded one heifer.  While her pedigree was nice - she looked horrible in that picture.  When we got to the sale, I kept looking at a heifer in the pen and trying to figure out why I hadn't marked her in my catalog -  then my daughter pointed out that we didn't like her picture.  I looked & looked at this heifer and everything that was wrong in the picture just wasn't there.  Could be the wrong picture - she's a black calf but there are enough identifiable characteristics that I don't think so. 

 

[Bawndoh]

Yeah I think the cattle industry is one where a picture is NOT worth a thousand words!  I am Genex sales rep so I have gone out and seen a few cattle.  There was a group of bulls that I loved.  I waited and waited patiently for the catalague to come out, and when it did, I was absolutely dissapinted!  The bulls looked like garbage.  The photo's werent "professional", but they werent bad by any means.  I think a profile pic just doesnt show the full substance some cattle have.

 

[CPL]

I think the customer is atleast somewhat responsible for it as well. Some people just go souly off of pictures. Maybe they'll see a calf or two out of the bull and if they're lucky they'll see a video, but most will just flip through pictures- oh he looks nice and AI him to half their herd. This really pushes the need for a PERFECT picture in order to max out semen sales, etc. While it would be nice if there was a bit more integrity and honesty in some parts of the cattle industry, I think we all need to focus on  paying a bit more attention to what they are throwing at us. Realizing that the pictures have been photoshopped, the data may be tweaked, etc. etc. A lot of people say I'm too critical and that's true, but I doubt I get burned as many times in my life. 

 

[Show Heifer]

Wow am I confused....

It is ok to change the color of an animal. It is ok to pump the animal. It is ok to use illegal drugs (off label). It is ok to hire a professional in a jr show. It is ok to "tweek" the DOB. It is ok to change the pedigree (sometimes breed). It is ok to add hair some place and take it away in others. All in the name of "enhancing and showing the animal to the best of its and your ability."
And yet now your going to complain when someone "enhances" the photo???? Does it surprise you that after all the shady, illegal things that happen in the show world that someone would "enhance" a photo?

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[j3cattleco]

i'm with you on this one.  We struggled with this a long time on the catalyst pic.  I will admit that it was cleaned up some and had the colors enhanced, but we through a fit when it came back and had some stuff done to him.  We immediately had it changed back.  We had been struggling with whether we just weren't as good as photographers as anyone else or were we just not good enough at photoshop.  They told us we were just as good at photography just not as good at photoshop as the others.  Pretty sad I think.

 

[Jill]

Wow am I confused....

It is ok to change the color of an animal. It is ok to pump the animal. It is ok to use illegal drugs (off label). It is ok to hire a professional in a jr show. It is ok to "tweek" the DOB. It is ok to change the pedigree (sometimes breed). It is ok to add hair some place and take it away in others. All in the name of "enhancing and showing the animal to the best of its and your ability."
And yet now your going to complain when someone "enhances" the photo???? Does it surprise you that after all the shady, illegal things that happen in the show world that someone would "enhance" a photo?

You have got to be kidding me.

I guess I am confused now, who said the above statements were ok?

 

[Bawndoh]

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1134&lang=EN

Here is a pic of a bull that I have to sell semen off of.  He has the highest YW epd of +152 that I have ever seen out of any breed.  Yet nobody will stop for one second to consider him.  He is the highest curve bending bull Genex has to offer, but because of the pic, nobody cares.  Now tell me what I am supposed to do to convince customers to think twice.  
P.S.  I did see the bull at stud, and he DOES look much better than the pic.

 

[Dusty]

Instead of complaining about the photoshopped pics, look at the actual bull.  They don't keep them at Ft. Knox under lock and key.  A day long trip through Iowa in the spring will catch most of them.  With all the hair the bulls have when they have their pic taken you're really not seeing the real bull anyways, it's irrevlevant if they are photoshopped most of the time.  Sometimes ugly bulls take really good pictures too, kind of like people, if you've ever tried online dating you'll know what I'm talking about.  Or, talk to people you trust who have seen the bull, people who have calves out of him.  I wouldn't use a bull simply off of the pic in Show Circuit without doing some more homework about him.

To Show Heifer:  Don't you remember? I said they were OK...LOL..

 

[kanshow]

Wow am I confused....

It is ok to change the color of an animal. It is ok to pump the animal. It is ok to use illegal drugs (off label). It is ok to hire a professional in a jr show. It is ok to "tweek" the DOB. It is ok to change the pedigree (sometimes breed). It is ok to add hair some place and take it away in others. All in the name of "enhancing and showing the animal to the best of its and your ability."
And yet now your going to complain when someone "enhances" the photo? Does it surprise you that after all the shady, illegal things that happen in the show world that someone would "enhance" a photo?

You have got to be kidding me

  I didn't read that anyone said that was ok.    It's just that some will push the limit.  So you have a nice bull that has none of the above and then you go and enhance him to look alot better than he already does...  So who is cheating now? 

 

[CPL]

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1134&lang=EN

Here is a pic of a bull that I have to sell semen off of.  He has the highest YW epd of +152 that I have ever seen out of any breed.  Yet nobody will stop for one second to consider him.  He is the highest curve bending bull Genex has to offer, but because of the pic, nobody cares.  Now tell me what I am supposed to do to convince customers to think twice.  
P.S.  I did see the bull at stud, and he DOES look much better than the pic.

What's wrong with him? Personally I'd like to see a stronger topline, but not much else I could be opposed to. He's an angus with a semi decent butt, he's perfect!  

 

[Telos]

I think some of you guys are missing my original  point. I  was just trying to say I don't enjoy looking at these overdone looking photos. The bulls don't look real anymore and the cows look like they were taken in to a taxidermist to have mounted on a wall.

I really think its OK for breeders/promoters to do whatever they please, they could put testicles on a cow for all I car, but to me these photos are looking like something out of a cheap Carnival Act at the fair.

 

[Telos]

Darn, I hit post instead of spell check but you get my point. Some of these touched up photos are just looking a bit corny. My feelings are if a bull or cow does not look good in a natural photo without photoshop, then just don't show their picture and go find one that does look good.

 

[Bawndoh]

I got your point, I just thought I would strike up some closely related conversations about it.

 

[Telos]

Bawndon, you're exactly correct about all this. Breeding cattle whether for show or the difficult to survive pasture lands seems to have turned into something other then a serious business. I'm going to go draw my perfect bull now. Think I'll make him a black baldy with a great big behind and tons of fuzzy hair. Check you later.

 

[Bawndoh]

Thanks!  Yeah I love the cattle industry, purebred, commercial, and those show freaks.  I just think that people are drifting away from growing BEEF!  They are more concerned (esp in the show industry) about growing good hair.  Hair seems to be easier to grow to mask faults; rather than producing plain old damn good cattle!!