old horned shorthorn bulls semen

[Grousepark]

Having been raised with shorthorns and recently in a situation to start breeding them again, I find myself, 35 years later, starting a small herd.  Presently, I have 5 cows and a yearling bull.  As a kid, our beltbuckle shorthorns were hardy, but in the 1970' way, way too small.  My father did straighten our herd out by buying bulls of the Thomas Leader line and the Haumont line. We also had a thick, big boned bull from the Maines Farm  (old Calrossie) line that added huged girth and bone but... (calving was harsh).
Now, that I  have started my herd with Native bred Haumont/Meadowbrook, Canadian Image genetics,(good choice) I feel comortable enough to consider other old Native genetics.  Rather than insisting on dual genetics, I find myself looking at old Scotch lines.  Beside being locked  on polled, I find myself considering Horned.  So, with this rambling.... I ask about  growthy, Scotch horned shorthorn bulls that have semen available.
Any thoughts?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I dont think there is a growthy scotch Shorthorn-I raised some 4h in the 60s-the hardest part about calving them was the head.The second bad point was that they would not grow-and had horrible fat carcasses.I would highly recommend Irish breeding-even the Us full irish bulls-like Waymar HFS Omally,Deerpark Leader of TMG-OR:Guiness himself(Deerpark Improver 52)-one of the great cow makers-at $15 per unit,the 57th -Kimillhill son from JJ-JJ Denim etc-The dual breeding will put you back into a bunch of skinny hardoing trash that are not usefull to ANYONE.The most effective use of them(Hilltop-Haumont,etc) was by breeders like Deertrail and a host of others who bred them with fullblood maines,Irish-and bulls like Millbrooke Mark4 who was a great????I cannot for the life of me see  how people raising any kind of beef Shorthorn cattle-could use Ayatollah etc like some of the junk that are still around MARYLAND AND VIRGINIA-AND AN ABSOLUTE EMBARRESMENT to anyone that has Shorts or X-Breds O0

 

[scotland]

what old horned semen do you have? Some of th edual purpose cattle thick easy doing cattle.

 

[Grousepark]

what old horned semen do you have? Some of th edual purpose cattle thick easy doing cattle.

At the moment I have no semen.  As for horned, dual, I know of a son of Canadian Image.  Beside that, the HUB bulls, I believe are available.  What I have in mind are the large, beef bulls shown on Ralph Larson's website featured in a Voices from the past article.  Maybe this is not a good direction, as mentioned above.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

There  ARE some thick big cattle that go back to dual-but they were bred up with Irish-Maine Etc-or Canadian.The Canadian cattle were,and still are alot stouter and easier fleshing.And when mixed with Super Flag etc,-it worked in the same direction as the American cattle.Certainly one of the most proven and widely used (Hoyts had him,plus AI) would have been Deertrail Goliath-who was a GuinessxMarvel Stylish-a dual cow who went about 2000 pounds.HE WAS HUGE-and sired cattle all over the board-not all of them big. Byland Bud Light was out of a Goliath daughter-and I remember her as almost clubby sized-he wasnt real big either.I would think the BWS on him would be managible -across the board as well.RIGHT NOW-FROM THE PICTURES IVE SEEN OF HIS CALVES,AND HIS FULL SISTER-YOU NEED ONLY LOOK AS FAR AS THE AVATAR BY SCOTLAND ABOVE YOU-NOW THAT-IS A CONSISTANT BULL. O0

 

[Okotoks]

There were some bigger framed horned bulls but most were never collected. I know Cecil Staples was taking horned bulls to Calgary in the late 60's early 70' that were weighing 1650 to 1800 lbs at 23 to 24 months. Most of the bulls in the barn(and there were usually over 650 Shorthorn, Angus and Hereford) were hard pressed to make 1500. There were several bigger framed bulls in Saskatchewan and Manitoba at that time. Most of those cows were then crossed with Ontario Dual Purpose, TPS Coronet Leader 21st or other older polled lines. Some of the Canadian Test Stations had lines they selected for growth and a few bigger animals like Brandon Captain and Lacombe Dock 45W came from the stations. A good project would be to gather up semen on older bulls, you never know when you might need to introduce some genetic diversity.

 

[Grousepark]

I appreciate the feedback. The Lacombe Dock reminded me that there is also Melbros Stronghold out there, but he too is dual.  And yes, dual cattle can be thick and growthy.  The bull calf under my profile is 8 months and totally Haumont genetics.  He's a replica of his grandsire, Promise a Chief 01.  I have a 14 month heifer sired by IPS Canadian Image of USA that is very thick.  Anyway, finding an old time, Scotch bull might compliment my present herd.  Remitall Choice Mint is another example of what I'm looking into.

 

[peachy]

Justintime might have some Duke of Dublin semen. I think he was horned.  ???

 

[scotland]

was at Haumonts October2011 a couple of bull calves with lots of muscle and deminsion. Melbros Stronghold was a straight dual purpose bred bull, left wonderful thick fleshy females.  You need to decide what you wish to raise, the old bloodlines to be fattier cattle that need improvement  on growth and rib eye. Good luck keep us posted. Always enjoy private chat

 

[mark tenenbaum]

2975

 

[Okotoks]

2975

He might be an interesting bull to bring back. His most famous son was probably Millbrook Marc 1V.
His EPD's
CE    BW  WW  YW  Milk  MW  MCE  CWT  REA  Fat      Marb
2.5  1.7    8      21    6    10    6.3    12      0.12  -0.05  -0.03
      x3358731 PLEASANT DAWN SEAL 2ND
  3441582 KENMAR RANSOM 32Z
      xC552652 KENMAR BEVERLY 28U
Sire: 3550480 MILL BROOK RANSOM G 9
      xCB413127 THOMAS MAX 31V
  x3451502 THOMAS DORIS 26A
      x3451453 THOMAS LEADER DORIS 5W
MILL BROOK RANSOM G NINE 2975
      338493 BONNIE'S PERFECTION
  3597427 MISS ANN'S LAD
      314623 MISS ANN
Dam: 3618185 LILYDALE BINNIE
      232133 LILYDALE DAGNEY ROBIN 2D
  3609257 LILYDALE BINNIE DAGNEY 7
      300673 LILYDALE BINNIE 

 

[Okotoks]

Some of the horned bloodlines beef, irish and dual are included in this thread
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=24570.30
I will bump it.

 

[Doc]

2975

He might be an interesting bull to bring back. His most famous son was probably Millbrook Marc 1V.
His EPD's
CE    BW  WW   YW  Milk  MW  MCE   CWT  REA   Fat      Marb
2.5   1.7    8      21    6     10     6.3    12      0.12  -0.05   -0.03
      x3358731 PLEASANT DAWN SEAL 2ND
   3441582 KENMAR RANSOM 32Z
      xC552652 KENMAR BEVERLY 28U
Sire: 3550480 MILL BROOK RANSOM G 9
      xCB413127 THOMAS MAX 31V
   x3451502 THOMAS DORIS 26A
      x3451453 THOMAS LEADER DORIS 5W
MILL BROOK RANSOM G NINE 2975
      338493 BONNIE'S PERFECTION
   3597427 MISS ANN'S LAD
      314623 MISS ANN
Dam: 3618185 LILYDALE BINNIE
      232133 LILYDALE DAGNEY ROBIN 2D
   3609257 LILYDALE BINNIE DAGNEY 7
      300673 LILYDALE BINNIE 

You have to watch the udders on 2975 dtrs. They can get a little sloppy on you. G9 dtrs weren't bad & Marc lV dtrs weren't bad, just 2975. Those were the days , Millbrook , Green Ridge & Sutherland were the dominating forces .

 

[dryfalls]

We used a horned Shorthorn bull in the '70's.  He was raised in British Columbia and I brought him to Washington, U.S.  His mother was Broadacres Missie 11A by Lacombe Dock 140Y.  His sire was Webollabolla Superex 18th  by Boonal Super 67-03000  from Munro in Austraulia.  His name was Terook Superex 38G.  Coming in from the desert as a 3 year old in the fall he weighed 2460 lbs.  Calving ease  was not a problem.  They were built to be born.  Daughters had the best bags.  They were very correct, maternal and good foragers.  At calving,  these ladies made sure you didn't get too close to their babies.  In my mind the Webollabolla genetics put a whole new deminsion to Shorthorn genetics.  We have semen availiable.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Here is a bull that flew under the radar owned by Bradley Eisminger-(who is a great person,along with a consistent producer of functional cattle).This bull was: thick-easy calving,and had the best dual and Irish mixture-Including-The HUBS line(his dam was a  HUBS cow sired by the full irish Lazy D Unique bull with all the Buttercup Impact etc.),He had Hilltop breeding-beingsired by the great DCC Prophet-who was Nelco Wild LillyXDeerpark Improver 2nd-If want real world stout-with milk and growth-he was one of the best I saw back then.Woodside Unique Prophet-3859643 O0

 

[sue]

Dry falls welcome! I attached Terook Super 38g

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Anybody want any 2975? got some-along with a few g-9 straws O0

 

[Okotoks]

Dry falls welcome! I attached Terook Super 38g

Now that's a bull!
Should be one a lot of people could use! (clapping) He has a +4.4 CE

 

[knabe]

Dry falls welcome! I attached Terook Super 38g

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=19145.15

 

[JPS]

Just visited with Bert Moore on a similar issue.  If GrousePark wants to keep his native status many of the Irish bulls (improver, leader, etc.) aren't accepted because their pedigrees came over with only one generation and they can't be traced to the coates herd book.  As you can imagine this really limits the bulls you can use.  Eionmor Mr Gus 85C is native.  And it appears that Mr Gus 80C and Mr Gus 30B maybe native also.  Dr. Moore is going to research that for me.