opinions please

[stick]

Here is a link to a bull I'm thinking about using.
http://www.semex.com/di/beef/semex.cgi?lang=en&beef=view&breed=SH&av=I&view=154&sid=117893638123
You can click on the pictures to make them bigger.

 

[Jill]

I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.

 

[red]

Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

 

[DL]

stick - I know nothing about the bloodlines but I like the looks of the bull and I also like the fact that they have provided BW, WW, and YW; frame score and mature weight - something you don't see a lot of..........

 

[blueroan]

Here is a link to the bull.      http://www.wolfwillowshorthorns.com/leroy.html  To me he looks excellent, but I like easy doing beefy cattle.





(dog)

 

[itk]

Here is a link to a bull I'm thinking about using.
http://www.semex.com/di/beef/semex.cgi?lang=en&beef=view&breed=SH&av=I&view=154&sid=117893638123
You can click on the pictures to make them bigger.

The bull looks like a good one to me. I to am alittle concerned about the progeny pictured but after judging with a team of Western Canada hereford kids they have alittle different prospective on pictures and presenting animals up north (we could all get a picture of Trump, Sonny, DV, Gizmo etc... progeny that wouldn't be to flattering to the bull). I would almost guarantee the calves will be rugged and sound and the daughters would be ideal cows. His sire was actually owned by Dale Rocker in Nebraska. Able Seaman sired alot of good functional cattle for Dale but was overshadowed by the Eagle line. I would say use him alittle before jumping in feet first, as with any bull. Another thing to consider is if Grant Alexander owns him he can't be that bad. Horseshoe Creek is one of the premiere Canadian herds and Grant knows good functional cattle as well as anyone.

 

[red]

Here is a link to the bull.      http://www.wolfwillowshorthorns.com/leroy.html  To me he looks excellent, but I like easy doing beefy cattle.

(dog)

(welcome) Blue Roan!

Hey, I'm getting closer to that purple one, I can just tell!!!

Red

 

[garybob]

I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.

What is so scarry to you about the calves? If you go to Wolf Willow Shorthorns' website, you will see better pictures of his progeny. Better yet, understand that Dale Rocker still has a few Shorthorn cows, and Seaman daughters outnumber the Eagle daughters and grandaughters in his herd, at the present time. Just wishing for the day when function outweighs flash in the Shorthorn Business. Remember---reproductively efficient cattle are slightly heavier fronted, deeper-bodied, sounder-structured, etc. Too many generations of ultra-clean-fronted cattle results in reproductive failure. Especially here in the Ozarks.We just don't grow corn Silage and Alfalfa Hay!! "Feminine" beef brood cows should not equate phenotypically to  cattle that have necks like Guernsey steers, or Suffolk market lambs!!!!!

 

[frostback]

Well it seems I am one of the few that actually have seen Able Seamen and Captain Mark( actually I showed him as a yearling)both were good bulls but Captain Mark was one of the thickest bulls with a cool front and show ring style but his real value was in his daughters. I wish I had some. I  went and looked at some but that was the year BSE was found and trade was shut down. The bull you are thinking is nice but if you want daughters look into Captain Mark himself.

 

[itk]

I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.

What is so scarry to you about the calves? If you go to Wolf Willow Shorthorns' website, you will see better pictures of his progeny. Better yet, understand that Dale Rocker still has a few Shorthorn cows, and Seaman daughters outnumber the Eagle daughters and grandaughters in his herd, at the present time. Just wishing for the day when function outweighs flash in the Shorthorn Business. Remember---reproductively efficient cattle are slightly heavier fronted, deeper-bodied, sounder-structured, etc. Too many generations of ultra-clean-fronted cattle results in reproductive failure. Especially here in the Ozarks.We just don't grow corn Silage and Alfalfa Hay!! "Feminine" beef brood cows should not equate phenotypically to  cattle that have necks like Guernsey steers, or Suffolk market lambs!!!!!

I'll tell you what I don't like about the bull calf pictured on the semen sales link. He looks tight hearted, breaks behind his shoulders and maybe looks alittle hard doing. But like I said I've been to Canada and seen how things work up there so I would have full confidence in the bull to be a good one just form the positive things I can pull out of the information provided. I'm waiting for the day when shorthorn breeders will realize that we can have our cake and eat it to. I feel that more then any other breed most of the cattle that we haul into the show ring can go on to make functional cows and outstanding bulls that will work in a number of scenarios and their are numerous great ones that never see a halter. Myself I get frustrated with breeders who will cut an outstanding roan bull calf just because they feel that the commercial market wants red, polled bulls. When the roan calf would do more good for the breed then the twenty solid red calves that were of lower quality but got left intact. I also get frustrated by breeders who won't look at cattle from what they think are more commercially oriented herds. They just need to look at the impact the Lauer's Rosewood family has had on the breed the last few years. Our first herd bull was a 148 son and did an outstanding job for us (Dale actually kept his mom after the dispersion). The Seaman cattle just never got as popular nationally as the Eagles especially on the bull side and I think that just spilled over to the females. However, I think most breeders would consider a Seaman daughter to be a valuable addition to their herd. Here's something else to think about we had an All-American bull calf out of our Eagle bull and a thousand dollar cow we bought from Marty Loving. We sold him to a well respected Limmy breeder who used him to produce club calves. There is a middle ground in this breed with cattle that will work for everyone. They make pretty good cake there to, come have a slice.

 

[justintime]

Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

I now own possession in Major Leroy and we had our first crop of calves from him this spring. Quite frankly, they are very impressive calves. I personally feel that every Leroy calf is going to be better than it's dam in as far as thickness, fleshing ability, capacity and structural soundness. We pulled him from pasture early last summer when we sold the world semen rights in Leroy to Semex International, as they wanted him to go to stud. Despite this, we got an impressive set of calves from him, and we could not be more pleased.
Semex officials stated that Major Leroy may be the best structured bull in their entire beef line-up. He has tremendous feet and legs and is extremely free moving. He is moderate framed and he puts a butt on each and every calf. His calves have good fronts and his boys look like linemen and his girls look like the cheerleaders.
We have calves from several leading sires in the Shorthorn breed and our Leroy calves are our favorite sire group. His calves also have tremendous hair. If you have cows that need to be downsized for frame, and need some extra thickness or fleshing ability, I think Leroy desires your consideration. We are so impressed that we are using him extensively in our ET program. I also purchased Leroy's dam when I purchased Leroy, and she is an absoolute tank on a moderate frame. She is an impressive female.
Leroy also is very good in so many functional areas. He is a tremendous semen producer and he has probably the best temperment I have ever seen in a bull. I am certain he is passing this on to his offspring as they are very quiet and easy to work with.

 

[genes]

but after judging with a team of Western Canada hereford kids they have alittle different prospective on pictures and presenting animals up north

And I heard the Americans' style of judging is very different   

Actually, just curious if you could elaborate on what you think the differences are.  The one thing I can think of is our shows (especially junior ones) are not such a big deal and lucrative, and therefore maybe not such a drive to get the great one (I mean everyone would like to win, but you know).  As such, there's not such a big divide between regular cattle and showring cattle.  The club calf sector is small 

 

[DL]

Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

I now own possession in Major Leroy and we had our first crop of calves from him this spring. Quite frankly, they are very impressive calves. I personally feel that every Leroy calf is going to be better than it's dam in as far as thickness, fleshing ability, capacity and structural soundness. We pulled him from pasture early last summer when we sold the world semen rights in Leroy to Semex International, as they wanted him to go to stud. Despite this, we got an impressive set of calves from him, and we could not be more pleased.
Semex officials stated that Major Leroy may be the best structured bull in their entire beef line-up. He has tremendous feet and legs and is extremely free moving. He is moderate framed and he puts a butt on each and every calf. His calves have good fronts and his boys look like linemen and his girls look like the cheerleaders.
We have calves from several leading sires in the Shorthorn breed and our Leroy calves are our favorite sire group. His calves also have tremendous hair. If you have cows that need to be downsized for frame, and need some extra thickness or fleshing ability, I think Leroy desires your consideration. We are so impressed that we are using him extensively in our ET program. I also purchased Leroy's dam when I purchased Leroy, and she is an absoolute tank on a moderate frame. She is an impressive female.
Leroy also is very good in so many functional areas. He is a tremendous semen producer and he has probably the best temperment I have ever seen in a bull. I am certain he is passing this on to his offspring as they are very quiet and easy to work with.

JIT - welcome - we have missed you!
genes - you mean Canadian show cattle could actually work in the field too? Incredible!! ;D
DL
ps I am cheering for Ottawa to squish the ducks

 

[Jill]

I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.

What is so scarry to you about the calves? If you go to Wolf Willow Shorthorns' website, you will see better pictures of his progeny. Better yet, understand that Dale Rocker still has a few Shorthorn cows, and Seaman daughters outnumber the Eagle daughters and grandaughters in his herd, at the present time. Just wishing for the day when function outweighs flash in the Shorthorn Business. Remember---reproductively efficient cattle are slightly heavier fronted, deeper-bodied, sounder-structured, etc. Too many generations of ultra-clean-fronted cattle results in reproductive failure. Especially here in the Ozarks.We just don't grow corn Silage and Alfalfa Hay!! "Feminine" beef brood cows should not equate phenotypically to  cattle that have necks like Guernsey steers, or Suffolk market lambs!!!!!

Well, I think the bull looks good, I think the cow looks good, out of the 2 progeny they have pictured the bull breaks horrible in his top line, not a great determining factor for function, he may be great, but not a good example to me if you are going to picture progeny.

 

[justintime]

Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

I now own possession in Major Leroy and we had our first crop of calves from him this spring. Quite frankly, they are very impressive calves. I personally feel that every Leroy calf is going to be better than it's dam in as far as thickness, fleshing ability, capacity and structural soundness. We pulled him from pasture early last summer when we sold the world semen rights in Leroy to Semex International, as they wanted him to go to stud. Despite this, we got an impressive set of calves from him, and we could not be more pleased.
Semex officials stated that Major Leroy may be the best structured bull in their entire beef line-up. He has tremendous feet and legs and is extremely free moving. He is moderate framed and he puts a butt on each and every calf. His calves have good fronts and his boys look like linemen and his girls look like the cheerleaders.
We have calves from several leading sires in the Shorthorn breed and our Leroy calves are our favorite sire group. His calves also have tremendous hair. If you have cows that need to be downsized for frame, and need some extra thickness or fleshing ability, I think Leroy desires your consideration. We are so impressed that we are using him extensively in our ET program. I also purchased Leroy's dam when I purchased Leroy, and she is an absoolute tank on a moderate frame. She is an impressive female.
Leroy also is very good in so many functional areas. He is a tremendous semen producer and he has probably the best temperment I have ever seen in a bull. I am certain he is passing this on to his offspring as they are very quiet and easy to work with.

JIT - welcome - we have missed you!
genes - you mean Canadian show cattle could actually work in the field too? Incredible!! ;D
DL
ps I am cheering for Ottawa to squish the ducks

The picture of Major leroy that is shown in the Semex catalog was taken on the day I pulled him from pasture to go to stud. He had run with 55 cows for 2 months and he was still in the same shape that he was when he went to pasture.  He is an amazing easy fleshing bull and his calves appear to be the same. This is a trait most of us will have to think more about if grain continues to go up in price. In regards to the comment about Canadian show cattle actually working in the field too..... I think we all need some more cattle that can make it in the real world once their show carriers are over. My grandfather used to say that there often was a difference between showing breeding cattle and breeding show cattle. This was probably never as true as in today's cattle industry.

 

[Doc]

Stick, I say go ahead & try him on a few. He has a good enough pedigree behind him & he looks pretty good.

 

[justintime]

I think the progeny pictured would scare me a little.

What is so scarry to you about the calves? If you go to Wolf Willow Shorthorns' website, you will see better pictures of his progeny. Better yet, understand that Dale Rocker still has a few Shorthorn cows, and Seaman daughters outnumber the Eagle daughters and grandaughters in his herd, at the present time. Just wishing for the day when function outweighs flash in the Shorthorn Business. Remember---reproductively efficient cattle are slightly heavier fronted, deeper-bodied, sounder-structured, etc. Too many generations of ultra-clean-fronted cattle results in reproductive failure. Especially here in the Ozarks.We just don't grow corn Silage and Alfalfa Hay!! "Feminine" beef brood cows should not equate phenotypically to  cattle that have necks like Guernsey steers, or Suffolk market lambs!!!!!

Too often people confuse femininity with fraility. I really question if some breeders even know what the word femininity should mean. If a female calves regularly in lerss than 12 months throughout her life, and is able to maintain herself without a lot of assistance from the owner.... can she be considered feminine ? Or does femininity only refer to a body type, rather than refer to a females fertility and production record? To me, some of the females that are referred to as being really feminine .,... are nothing more than really frail... and you better be willing to keep them in the spare bedroom or they will be history before they see their third calf arrive.

 

[Jill]

Too often people confuse femininity with fraility. I really question if some breeders even know what the word femininity should mean. If a female calves regularly in lerss than 12 months throughout her life, and is able to maintain herself without a lot of assistance from the owner.... can she be considered feminine ? Or does femininity only refer to a body type, rather than refer to a females fertility and production record? To me, some of the females that are referred to as being really feminine .,... are nothing more than really frail... and you better be willing to keep them in the spare bedroom or they will be history before they see their third calf arrive.

You are 100% correct, we show Maines and alot of what is termed as feminine I wouldn't take home and put in a pasture.  When I look for a feminine heifer in my mind she is just solid, easy keeping, deep ribbed with good bone and a nice sized foot under her.  What I see being termed as feminine is the frail, hard doing kind that require a feed bunk to keep them in any kind of condition to calve and when they do you usually don't get a calf that is worth anything.  It would be nice if at some point we could meet in the middle, because it would be really nice to have show cattle that also work when you turn them out to be cows.  Just my 2 cents for the day.

 

[stick]

Man, was gone for a couple of days and looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. I have 2 cows for sure that I'm looking at using Major on. One is a CF Brando daughter out of a Leader 18th dam from Aldens Fantasy Girls cow family, and the other is a Dunbeacon Venture granddaughter out of GB Designer dam, going back to Shalom Shorthorns Hope cow family. Both are a little bigger framed and could use more thickness. Thanks for everyones input.
stick

 

[OH Breeder]

Stick, personally I like his looks but I know nothing about Canadian Shorthorn bloodlines.
What are you thinking of using him on?

Red

I now own possession in Major Leroy and we had our first crop of calves from him this spring. Quite frankly, they are very impressive calves. I personally feel that every Leroy calf is going to be better than it's dam in as far as thickness, fleshing ability, capacity and structural soundness. We pulled him from pasture early last summer when we sold the world semen rights in Leroy to Semex International, as they wanted him to go to stud. Despite this, we got an impressive set of calves from him, and we could not be more pleased.
Semex officials stated that Major Leroy may be the best structured bull in their entire beef line-up. He has tremendous feet and legs and is extremely free moving. He is moderate framed and he puts a butt on each and every calf. His calves have good fronts and his boys look like linemen and his girls look like the cheerleaders.
We have calves from several leading sires in the Shorthorn breed and our Leroy calves are our favorite sire group. His calves also have tremendous hair. If you have cows that need to be downsized for frame, and need some extra thickness or fleshing ability, I think Leroy desires your consideration. We are so impressed that we are using him extensively in our ET program. I also purchased Leroy's dam when I purchased Leroy, and she is an absoolute tank on a moderate frame. She is an impressive female.
Leroy also is very good in so many functional areas. He is a tremendous semen producer and he has probably the best temperment I have ever seen in a bull. I am certain he is passing this on to his offspring as they are very quiet and easy to work with.

JIT - welcome - we have missed you!
genes - you mean Canadian show cattle could actually work in the field too? Incredible!! ;D
DL
ps I am cheering for Ottawa to squish the ducks

The picture of Major leroy that is shown in the Semex catalog was taken on the day I pulled him from pasture to go to stud. He had run with 55 cows for 2 months and he was still in the same shape that he was when he went to pasture.  He is an amazing easy fleshing bull and his calves appear to be the same. This is a trait most of us will have to think more about if grain continues to go up in price. In regards to the comment about Canadian show cattle actually working in the field too..... I think we all need some more cattle that can make it in the real world once their show carriers are over. My grandfather used to say that there often was a difference between showing breeding cattle and breeding show cattle. This was probably never as true as in today's cattle industry.

Do you have a picture of the dam of the bull?