purchase + female?

[jbzdad]

would you buy a purebred shorthorn or MA for a possible donor if she was + for TH or PHA... I have and don't think I would again, when you are breeding for maternal traits you are trying to raise better female , 1/2 your calves would not be as desirable...so I think you are really limiting your market.

 

[shortyjock89]

For me, it would depend on just how good that female is.  We bought a heifer this year that was a possible carrier for both...dodged the TH bullet, didn't get quite so lucky on the PHA. That's ok with me, because the heifer is really good IMO, and we can breed around defects.  I can sell steers just as easy as I can females, and the heifers I produce are really meant to be a little clubby, but still make good cows.  We don't use very many carrier bulls, and we always test our heifers before we sell them.  Some of the "IN" crowd in the Shorthorn breed still have TH/PHA positive cattle and they are selling pretty good still.

 

[knabe]

would you buy a purebred shorthorn or MA for a possible donor if she was + for TH or PHA...

no.

i might use a very limited number of bulls, and that list is at 3 and they are paramount, dalton and irish whiskey. 

if i generated a carrier, she would have to meet a very specific set of criteria that has little to do with phenotype before i bred her. 

the american association may have stated that even carrier females can not be registered after a certain date.  males i think was this year.

 

[P-F]

AMAA changed that rule and as of September 09, bulls can be registered.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

Would depend on 2 things.  Price and how good she was.  If she was that good and cheap then yes and would still beable to keep half the calves.  Like right now I wish I was in the position to buy some AM + cows that were once high dollar donors and pick them up cheap breed around the defect.  Still have some very marketable cattle when you were done. 

 

[oakbar]

Somtimes you can purchase a carrier female that you would otherwise be unable to affford if she was not a carrier.  Even so, I don't  think I would ever  buy a PHA carrier.  I have purchased carrier TH females and some that I didn't know the status of.  The primary example of this is our Myrtle Bo cow.  When I bought her everyone thought she was probably a TH carrier based on her pedigree and she sold at a discount because of that.  However, she was an outstanding female and we were willing to take the chance that we would get some carrier calves .  Fortunately, right after we bought her  TH test came back negative.  Good thing the seller didn't know that before I bought her or either she never would have been offered for sale or she would have brought more than I could afford to spend.  I have only one TH carrier on the farm and no PHA carriers.  Again the TH carrier is a female I bought at a discount because she was a carrier.  I'm willing to put in a little more effort with her calves to gain the 50% of them that will not be affected but will still have her superior genes---hopefully!  JMHO

 

[PaddyO]

Nah Nope. Could get luck but with shorthorns.... That is more than likely going to show up, but if it dont a great you could have!!!

 

[justintime]

No way . If you are buying a female to be a possible donor, I would not purchase a carrier female at any price. I have kept a few carriers and some have become recips and a couple are very good females. I decided I would keep them until I got a TH free daughter to replace the carrier dam with. Both have had carrier bull calves so far and it really hurts to have to steer them when they are powerful bull prospects. I would never sell a carrier bull, even to anyone I did not like. I am convinced that there are enough good clean cattle on the planet, that there is really no need to propagate more carriers.

 

[oakbar]

I guess I kind of got lost in my examples and didn't finish my thought on the original question.  No, I would not buy a carrier female for use as a donor cow.  If Myrtle Bo had been a carrier we never would have used her as a donor but we would have experimented with her on her natural calves.    I don't want anything to do with PHA carriers at all.  I will not sell any bull that is a carrier and I won't sell a carrier female  unless its someone who understands the risks fully and is looking to raise clubbies, etc.  Actually, some of the clubby guys are looking for TH females just as the Paint and Quarter Horse breeders were looking for HYPP carrier females a few years ago.  If I am upfront with these guys about the status of the animal then I think it is their choice if they want it or not.  I know that may not be the most popular opinion on SP but I think it is a realistic one.    All carrier males have been castrated on our farm and we don't use any carrier sires which will eventually get us to a no TH status but in the mean time there may be a few very good females that may fit someone's needs.    No one will ever get a carrier female from us unless they know all the ramifications and then make up their own minds that they want to purchase that particular animal.  JMHO

 

[Show Steaks]

I think i would buy a carrier..... there is som any diffrent bull options to use that are clean.  The purchased animal may even be a littel cheaper becuase of its carrier status

 

[kfacres]

wouldn't think twice about buying a good cattle who is dirty....  IMO TH isn't nearly as bad as PHA though... TH atleast you save the cows life

 

[DL]

No way . If you are buying a female to be a possible donor, I would not purchase a carrier female at any price. I have kept a few carriers and some have become recips and a couple are very good females. I decided I would keep them until I got a TH free daughter to replace the carrier dam with. Both have had carrier bull calves so far and it really hurts to have to steer them when they are powerful bull prospects. I would never sell a carrier bull, even to anyone I did not like. I am convinced that there are enough good clean cattle on the planet, that there is really no need to propagate more carriers.

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT - well said JIT- there are enough good cattle in the world that buying a carrier cow as a donor is nothing but propagating lethal recessive defects - look at the number of offspring Pebbles put on the earth or some of the DP Angus donors - I don't use carrier bulls, I don't sell carrier cattle and I guarantee my calves free of TH, PHA and MB - IIMHO selling carrier females "only to people who understand the ramifications" is often just an excuse to sell a carrier - most people don't understand the ramifications until they get slammed in the face with a gross ugly dead calf and a wreck to go along with it.

 

[ShowmanQ]

I would buy a carrier, but would not sell a carrier. If that makes any sense. I test and breed accordingly, however this is my decision and I will not take any part in making anyone else's for them. If I breed a carrier to a non and produce a non then the calf is for sale, if the calf is a carrier it stays at the farm or gets fed out depending on the calf.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

I would buy a carrier, but would not sell a carrier. If that makes any sense. I test and breed accordingly, however this is my decision and I will not take any part in making anyone else's for them. If I breed a carrier to a non and produce a non then the calf is for sale, if the calf is a carrier it stays at the farm or gets fed out depending on the calf.

Exactly.

 

[Show Dad]

No.