Showmanship-class deal breakers

[herfluvr]

Would like to hear from people who are accomplished in showmanship and those that have judged.  Was approached by a friend at HBC to try and help her understand how a child made it further than her child did when it was the ringman that ended up holding the calf.  I had no answers for her.  I also saw in the Senior pen an exhibitor make it back that their calf not once but twice got loose requiring the judge, the exhibitor and 4 others to catch the calf. The calf then broke away again causing another wreck for another exhibitor.  the exhibitor was flung to the ground both times.  I am not picking on that person just letting you all know what I saw.  I also saw the judge wait on a person that is very recognizable try repeatedly to set up her calf while three other showman in that class had their calves set, broke and attentive to where the judge was. 

I am interested in what is a deal-breaker?  calves getting away from an exhibitor?  excessive circles?  a busy stick?  Interested in what you all have to say. 

I will begin with what I feel is a great showman.  A broke calf.  One that walks softly in your hand and doesn't pull.  A calf that will allow you to turn around and walk into your set.  A calf that will allow the exhibitor to raise the head and the calf with leave it there.  A showman that is well dressed with clean shirt, tidy hair and confidence.  NOt  over confidence but that quiet collected stance with smooth transitions.  Using the corners to allow for more room to walk .  a gentle stick.  One that is aware of the judge at all times while still keeping the calf correct. 
My deal-breakers are : calf getting loose from the exhibitor.  The exhibitor hitting the dirt.  Not being aware of the judge.  Working way to hard to get a calf set when the judge is trying to view the calf.  Not being ready to show to the judge when the judge walks the line.  A messy appearance with hair in face or over the number.
A lot of circles that make it seem you are so nervous.
Enlighten me

 

[chambero]

Showmanship shouldn't be about the kid with the gentlest calf.  I want a kid that can get it done with one that has an attitude - cause a lot of the really good ones arent pets.  But nowadays, being a good stick and winning a showmanship contest are often two different things.

 

[vc]

I think each class has to be judged on it's own. I have seen calves get loose because of the calf behind it, in my opinion the exhibitor who caused the incident is responsible, many times it is how the exhibitor recovers after an incident the determines their placing, some kids never recover others do.
I've seen kids with push button calves not win because they really never had to show the calf, the exhibitor with the calf that was a little more difficult but it was always where it needed to be when the judge was looking, even seen them switch calves to see who handled the tougher calf better.
As long as the top 3 or 4 are placed as such, the next 6 usually could be placed in a different order depending on what the judge saw at the time he placed them.
The last year my boy won ( his last year showing) he won because his heavy weight calf was starting to fall apart and the judge never saw the flaws while he was at the halter, when the 4 remaining boys switched the next boy did not hide the flaws, other than that they were all pretty even.
It is always easier to follow the judge when you do not have anyone in this class. But I think some times judges place the kids a spot or to higher based on their effect, especially when there mishaps and they recover.

 

[herfluvr]

"in my opinion the exhibitor who caused the incident is responsible"

the child in the class that was asked to return was the one that was causing the commotion in this class.  That is why I was a bit perplexed.  Was just observing the classes at this point and I am all for a child that can get a tough one shown. 

 

[herfluvr]

Showmanship shouldn't be about the kid with the gentlest calf.  I want a kid that can get it done with one that has an attitude - cause a lot of the really good ones arent pets.  But nowadays, being a good stick and winning a showmanship contest are often two different things.

I believe broke and gentle are two different things.
What Is hard to understand is when you have an exhibitor that IS getting their calf shown compared to the one that cannot get a calf even set once and the later gets the nod that just doesn't seem to set the example of getting the animal shown.    Being able to show well is to be able to exhibit the animal so that the judge can make an evaluation.  If you can't set it you can't see it.

 

[chambero]

Can't say I've ever run into that situation.  It's so competetive down here that things usually have to go perfect to win.  But in almost all of our showmanship classes, anyone can enter.

 

[grandchamp58]

My pet peeve is when exhibitors are rude to eachother. I've been in the ring where people behind me will run their calves to close and get spit and foam all over my calf. I have also been circled around (out of a class of 10, they only went around me). Judges have made comments and one girl in my county lost due to her "ring manners".

 

[BogartBlondes]

In any show that I have seen the judges look for two things: how well the calf is shown and how easily you can present yourself while doing so.
I am a full believer that if a show person has good posture and an easy way with the stick that an easy 2-3 placings can be gained.
Even if that calf gets away from the person it is how the exhibitor handles that mishap that really counts. Does she cry and leave the ring? or Does she stay and tough it out and show that calf off as best she can?
I know that some judges overlap conformation and showmanship; the better calves win. This is wrong, but could have played a part in this particular class.
Another variable is the quality of the rest of the showmen in the class, if the kid with the runaway calf did a perfect job but her calf got spooked it wouldn't be fair to put showmen that did a terrible job(but their calf didn't get away) ahead of her.
I have judged a few showmanship classes and it isn't always the easy to deal with calves that win.

 

[cebwtx]

I have seen the judge make the exhibitors trade to someone else's animal. I can see the plus of this but I have heard grumbling because the kid got a animal that was not very show ring ready. Believing that showmanship goes in practice leading up to as well as in the ring. I've also seen a judge make the exhibitors switch the halter to the opposite side to see how the kids handled the change. It just seems to be one of those things like in the judging of the animals. Sometimes there's going to be politics and sometimes it can be sour grapes for those who feel slighted.

 

[paj315]

Unfortunately life isn't fair and neither is showing cattle. We were there and showed in showmanship Friday night. I'm not saying my child should've won his class or shouldn't have won his class there were several good showmen in the ring . However my kid was one of the few in the ring that didn't spending of the show smacking his calf in the nose with his show stick. However I do agree a lot of the good ones can have a little attitude . Ours certainly does but she is manageable and a little attitude can make them fun to show. Everyone wants to win and that is the reason we compete . But, I try to teach my kids that win or loose the most important thing is that they do their best , they are gracious winners and humble losers , and most important that they learn something every time they show .

 

[kanshow]

I have no answers..  hoping I see some on here that will help me understand this better too.

I have decided that the more I watch showmanship classes - especially the senior division. the more confused I get.  I witnessed a shoving match at a junior national this summer that was like Black Friday shopping.  Exhibitors were knocked down, calves were bumped around.  I think the judge saw this activity at the gate, because the shovers were not rewarded for getting into the ring first at any cost.     

What leaves me scratching my head is the kid who can place in the top 10 on a national level and shows that way all the time gets rolled to the bottom at a county fair and beaten by kids who are doing everything we tell our kids NOT to do..  Hand on the end of the leather strap, saw hard, stick each foot into place, etc...

Another thing that I'm not sure I agree with is the questions..  You'll hear a judge talk his placement at the end and then tell us that he used one kid over another because of his knowledge..  I feel like if they are going to do the skillathon, quizbowl type of judging then they better mic the kids because we can all SEE how they are judging but we have no idea what their answers to the questions are...

 

[BlkAngus]

The thing that annoys me the most at County Fairs is when judges place the class on eye contact.  What good does watching the judge the most do if the calf is standing there not set up?  I'd rather the calf be presented to the judge then the exhibitor staring down the judge.

 

[obie105]

Knowledge is part of the game I remember one time in senior showmanship the judge asked every how many days does a cow come into heat the girl next to me answered 24. We were both in our last year of showing so at some point you have to learn something. In my mind a good showman is the total package. Calm and efficient while always staying aware of surroundings. I did very well in showmanship while I was showing. A lot of it is watching out for yourself give plenty of space if the calf behind you is crowding be able to step ahead. Keep your cool and stay professional even if things aren't going your way. I also believe in very minimal use of a show stick but you have to get them set up. Watch the judge know where they are at. Use your comb. Just a few things I have learned.

 

[BTDT]

Showmanship classes has changed because the junior show industry has changed.  The judge should not look at the fitting job because that perfect fit job was probably done by a crew of 3-4 professionals. The tame calf shouldn't be judged because in all likelihood, that calf was broke before purchase, and then was put into the hands of a show jock which "finished it" for the show ring.  Also, if Daddy or Mommy has a lot of money, that gets a pretty nice supply box. Showmanship shouldn't be about money.

In a senior class, I like to see the judge have the kids switch calves. 

So, if you can't judge the calf, the judge should judge the showmanship.  The list that follows is my thoughts.

1. No "slut" cloths.  I do not want to see the showman's "udder" or "butt crack" or "gut".
2. A little bling is ok, but not those HUGE blingy belts and gaudy necklaces. 
3. A smile is always nice.
4. Full control of the show stick. Have it quietly at your side while on the move, and using it correctly when working with the calf.
5. Persistence. If the calf doesn't set up correctly, try again, and again and again if needed.
6. A calm soothing demeanor while in the ring.
7. Assisting the calf in front if needed to get it moving.
8. Listening and following judges or ringman's directions.
9. Full attention in ring and not on someone standing ringside.
10. Keeping CONTROL of the calf.... If it gets away from a senior is BAD. If it gets away from a junior and the junior calming assists in catching it, and regains control without a crying scene, that is acceptable.  If a senior has a difficult time, but still maintains control and does not interfere with other participants, then that is acceptable.
11. Boots. No tennis shoes, no sandals (yep, I have seen it).
12. I do not care if the exhibitor has a little dirt on their knees or elbow.  But I also don't understand the full "rolled in the dirt" look during showmanship.
13. Enters the ring on time in an orderly fashion.
14. No hats. No, not even cowboy hats. (Probably acceptable in some area's)
15. A look that says "I am enjoying myself" "I am glad to be here".
16. A few questions about how the exhibitor prepared the calf. Ex. "What product did you use on the legs"  "How did you ball the tail"  "What did you feed the calf"   
17. Halter clean. I do not care for the bling halters, and do not think those should be a "bonus" (again, the money issue).
18. Did I mention no slutty clothes?  THAT is the deal breaker for me. Male exhibitors should have their shirt buttoned up and no low butt crack jeans.
19. No torn jeans.

 

[vc]

A little off topic but a story about showmanship classes and wanting to win.

Showmanship Battle

I can remember to this day one of the best demonstrations of showmanship and wanting to win. It started in the senior swine showmanship class, it was down to 2 girls and they were battling it out, the judge had sorted down to the 2 and they must have been in the ring for over 30 minutes at that point, both girls where good and he had a chore in front of him, after switching hogs, in and out of gates, knowledge questions and just plain driving the hogs I came down to the one girls whose hog happened to be a little loose, this poor girl was covered in it, but the hog never had a drop on it when the judge was looking. Why I started with hogs is that while they were battling it out in the hog ring they were waiting for them to start the steer showmanship class. It had to be 8 people deep around the hog ring and over flowing in the bleachers.

Everyone moved to the beef ring from the hog ring since we all knew what was next. Both of these girls were friends and had been showing against each other for 10 years.

Both girls left the hog ring changed clothes and headed for beef ring, where it came down to the same 2 girls and another 1 hour battle of changing steers, knowledge questions and just plain working their calves, this time the other girl prevailed. To this day I think it came down to the fact that the judge for the beef had watched the hog show and when it came down to it gave it to the girl based off of her second place in the hog class, and I did not have a problem with that being his tie breaker since both girls could just flat out show and they both deserved a win.

The entire thing was something to see.

 

[Mountain Laurel Farm]

I've won my age division every year at county fair because I just flat out love showmanship and practice to get the knowledge to show off my animals to the best of my ability.  I like to see smiles, good eye contact, calm and gentle with stick, walking into set ups, being persistant and never giving up, &' just having the confidence and will to win. A really wise judge who has been a major part of the industry his whole life told me this past year that I have good salesmanship, that every time a person even hesitated because of a spoked calf wct. I always set up my calf emediatly, was always attentive,  & smile like I'm the happiest person in the world