THF state fair grand champions??

[hntwhitetail]

I was wondering, were any of the state fair grand or reserve grand champions THF?  Been seeling a lot of Heat Wave or Monopoly winners, just wondering if any were THF? or have to be THC to have that "look".

 

[vc]

I'm pretty sure the steers are not tested, the only way you would know if a steer was clean is if both parents were clean. And if it is a HW or Monopoly 50/50 chance there not clean.

 

[knabe]

most people want a TH positive calf and would probably pay more for a verified carrier.

that's why people keep breeding carriers to carriers to increase the odds of a carrier because 50% simply is not enough.

 

[Okotoks]

Just more proof the show ring leads to some major insanity. Breeding two carriers means 25% of your calf crop would be a write off! I realise you would be planning on getting that back and more on the showable calves but ...................! Maybe judges should start learning the phenotype that carriers have .. oh I guess they already know that. Originally people took out steers to exhibit because they thought they would be the best carcass and thus advertise the bulls they were selling to produce the same type. Now it's like a glorified dog show circuit . I'm guessing most dog breeders have more integrity when it comes to genetic defects. I know dog breeders who have been testing and selecting against defects for years.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Just more proof the show ring leads to some major insanity. Breeding two carriers means 25% of your calf crop would be a write off! I realise you would be planning on getting that back and more on the showable calves but ...................! Maybe judges should start learning the phenotype that carriers have .. oh I guess they already know that. Originally people took out steers to exhibit because they thought they would be the best carcass and thus advertise the bulls they were selling to produce the same type. Now it's like a glorified dog show circuit . I'm guessing most dog breeders have more integrity when it comes to genetic defects. I know dog breeders who have been testing and selecting against defects for years.

Actually on the dog show topic breeders are being black listed if they sell on dogs with known genetic defects.  Some breed associations are really smacking down.  I find it discouraging that the TH and PH phenotype is what we are actually getting ourselves stuck on.  I bred my carrier cows until I got free daughters and now use the carriers as recipient cows.  Every cow in our herd was tested we haven't sold any known carriers on as breeding stock.  I believe that as breeders we should try and maintain the integrity of our cattle because fads pass look at the 60s, 80s, and now the 00s.

 

[jaimiediamond]

Just more proof the show ring leads to some major insanity. Breeding two carriers means 25% of your calf crop would be a write off! I realise you would be planning on getting that back and more on the showable calves but ...................! Maybe judges should start learning the phenotype that carriers have .. oh I guess they already know that. Originally people took out steers to exhibit because they thought they would be the best carcass and thus advertise the bulls they were selling to produce the same type. Now it's like a glorified dog show circuit . I'm guessing most dog breeders have more integrity when it comes to genetic defects. I know dog breeders who have been testing and selecting against defects for years.

Actually on the dog show topic breeders are being black listed if they sell on dogs with known genetic defects.  Some breed associations are really smacking down.  I find it discouraging that the TH and PH phenotype is what we are actually getting ourselves stuck on.  I bred my carrier cows until I got free daughters and now use the carriers as recipient cows.   Every cow in our herd was tested we haven't sold any known carriers on as breeding stock.  I believe that as breeders we should try and maintain the integrity of our cattle because fads pass look at the 60s, 80s, and now the 00s.

Just adding pictures to prove my point I did random searches of animals from each time frame and these are 3 examples.

 

[chambero]

So, which of the three are more functional?

Therein lies the problem. What we breed for nowadays has its ugly extremes, but overall I don't see how anyone could say we aren't closer to more efficient animals as a whole than in past decades.  Show cattle are always going to be extreme examples - just like human beauty pageants.

 

[jaimiediamond]

So, which of the three are more functional?

Therein lies the problem. What we breed for nowadays has its ugly extremes, but overall I don't see how anyone could say we aren't closer to more efficient animals as a whole than in past decades.  Show cattle are always going to be extreme examples - just like human beauty pageants.

I agree with you I am not stating which of these is more useful because at the time the animals shown were of type.  I am just pointing out that in 2020 we might have a totally different fad going on with our cattle and that breeding TH to TH for a higher chance of getting a TH carrier calf that has the phenotype that is winning today won't help anyone out in the long run. 

 

[garybob]

Just more proof the show ring leads to some major insanity. Breeding two carriers means 25% of your calf crop would be a write off! I realise you would be planning on getting that back and more on the showable calves but ...................! Maybe judges should start learning the phenotype that carriers have .. oh I guess they already know that. Originally people took out steers to exhibit because they thought they would be the best carcass and thus advertise the bulls they were selling to produce the same type. Now it's like a glorified dog show circuit . I'm guessing most dog breeders have more integrity when it comes to genetic defects. I know dog breeders who have been testing and selecting against defects for years.

(thumbsup) (thumbsup) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)
In my humble Ozarkian opinion, TH and PHA carriers should be sent on a one-way trip to Tama, Iowa. That's my opinio0n, anyway, so take it for what it's worth.

GB

 

[knabe]

That's my opinio0n, anyway, so take it for what it's worth.

GB

$1.15/lb?  tee hee.  nice to hear from you gb

 

[STEER_1981]

What are the positive traits of a TH carrier?  Why are they even good in the show ring?

 

[vc]

Hair and bone

 

[CCW]

It would be interesting to see what percentage of the top 5 steers at the big shows are positive for TH? I'm guessing at least 80% are. Maybe someone needs to be in charge of researching this.

 

[kp1625]

Is the industry moving forward and suppling a better more efficient product than past decades?  It seems more like a science fair.  The purpose of raising cattle is to provide beef.  The purpose of putting cattle in the showring is to publicize your cattle.  I believe we need to get back to remembering why we are in this industry.  Producing a quality carcass on the hook.

 

[Bradenh]

it may be surprising actually to find more of them that are thf and phaf because there are alot of "monopoly*" and alot of "heatwaves*" that arent. i bet theres alot of these calves that are supposedly sired by those bulls because they are the big names  and thats sorta in "style" to say you have a heatwave when its really another bull whose unproven jmo but i personally know it happens down here

 

[knabe]

Is the industry moving forward and suppling a better more efficient product than past decades?  It seems more like a science fair.   The purpose of raising cattle is to provide beef.  The purpose of putting cattle in the showring is to publicize your cattle.  I believe we need to get back to remembering why we are in this industry.  Producing a quality carcass on the hook.

then, i think supporters ought to support that with money, prizes, judging.  perhaps have stands inside the locker.

 

[chambero]

I believe we need to get back to remembering why we are in this industry.  Producing a quality carcass on the hook.

THE TYPE OF STEERS THAT WIN NOW ABSOLUTELY DO PRODUCE VERY HIGH QUALITY CARCASSES!  It is a complete fallacy for anyone to say that they don't.  Look up the carcass contest results that many of the big majors in this country have - for example Houston. Every single first and second place steer is slaughtered and judged.  As a group, any meat packer would love to have this group of carcasses to sell.

There are plenty of things to gripe about show steer production, but carcass quality isn't one of them.

 

[ZNT]

that's why people keep breeding carriers to carriers to increase the odds of a carrier because 50% simply is not enough.

Sounds like more people need to take genetics class then.  Carrier to carrier only gets you 25% more dead ones.  50% is the best anyone can do, unless they are calculating on % of calves weaned that are carriers.  HAHA  Knabe, preaching to the choir on this one. 

 

[knabe]

  50% is the best anyone can do, unless they are calculating on % of calves weaned that are carriers.  HAHA   Knabe, preaching to the choir on this one. 

bingo!

 

[Okotoks]

 50% is the best anyone can do, unless they are calculating on % of calves weaned that are carriers.  HAHA   Knabe, preaching to the choir on this one.  

bingo!

Definitely a case of more is not better! There was a guy at Agribtion last fall talking about breeding carriers to carriers as though he would get better results, same number of carriers but 25% dead calves!