what would you think if....

[DL]

OK so this is reality - real situations - real people - no  names - sure don't want the great defenders to accuse me of slander and have been waiting for Mr Frostbite to come up with a topic, but he's been too busy and too tired, so lets try this

1. You go to a big sale - they are selling registered Angus females - some of these females have horns....what do you think?
2. At another sale there are registered Angus with white on heir faces (spot, not like I am a really old cow with grey hair)....what do you think?
3. You are looking for a bred heifer and get a catalog - a picture catches your eye - it is a cow sired by Eskimo Joe out of a Double Stuff cow bred to Double Vision...(there is no mention of genetic testing anywhere in the catalog)....what would you think??
4. You buy a bull at a sale for pretty big bucks - when you go to have the bull DNA tested for collection he doesn't verify to the listed sire. You call the seller and he says it must have been a mistake - they thought the bull was born to the AI date but it must be the herd bull - sorry, he can't help you, you bought the bull....what do you think?

 

[Jill]

1. I think I don't trust what they are selling and I don't buy from them.
2. Same as #1
3. I would think they have not tested her and I'm not taking a chance on a bred cow bred that way with no test, look for another.
4. If I am buying the bull it is a registered Maine, so if the buyer won't refund my money, I would call John Boddicker, if I still can't get it resolved, I call my lawyer.

 

[chambero]

1 & 2.  A 90 year old rancher who doesn't watch TV, own a computer, or keep records wouldn't buy an Angus with horns.  That there doesn't pass the common sense test at all.  I truly can't imagine someone with the downright stupidity to try to pull that one off.

3.  Wouldn't be interested for any price.  We bought a bull this summer that wasn't tested but should be clean by pedigree.  Haven't tested him myself yet, but will be used on Angus cows.  Buying something from a carrier bred to a carrier is an obvious big time bomb.  If I "accidentally" bought one like this, I'd get her tested ASAP.  If she was positive, I'd look at options to abort her or cause premature delivery immediately.  By the way, can that be done?  No I don't have one like that, but the question just popped into my head.

4.  This one depends.  I guess it would depend on how I liked the bull and what the real dad was.  I imagine this one happens a lot, but most of the time we don't know it.  The seller would hear about it and I'd want something out of the deal. 

 

[shorthorns r us]

1.   i bet i know their sire or grandsire.
2.   isn't that within the rules
3.   that sucker could sure be a good one
4.   if he is that good, the seller probably retained atleast a semen interest and is as equally screwed on semen revenue.  i can think of 2 instances that this has gone to court.  let's just say it pays to get your pedigrees right

 

[Show Dad]

1. Isn't that called fraud.
2. Isn't that called fraud.
3. Don't buy crap like that in the first place.
4. I would  half castrate the seller. Then maybe he would think twice before doing it again.

 

[TJ]

1. Isn't that called fraud.
2. Isn't that called fraud.
3. Don't buy crap like that in the first place.
4. I would  half castrate the seller. Then maybe he would think twice before doing it again.

1. I would think that it probably had a little more Chi or Holstein influence than most "modern angus".

2. I would think that it probably had a higher milk EPD due to it's Holstein background.

3. Either something really, really good or really, really bad is going to happen when the cow decides that it's time for the calf to exit the cow.

4. If you buy a fullblood Lowline you wont be making that call (all are DNA tested).  If you liked the bull enough to buy him, why wouldn't you still like him?  Now if that changed his percentage of a certain breed (instead of being a PB Maine, the sire was 1/2 Maine), then I could see a buyer being really upset.  I can also see an upset buyer if they already had alot of the sires genetics in their herd.  Also, an honest seller should offer you a refund, IF you bring the bull back in good condition & health. 

 

[OH Breeder]

OK so this is reality - real situations - real people - no  names - sure don't want the great defenders to accuse me of slander and have been waiting for Mr Frostbite to come up with a topic, but he's been too busy and too tired, so lets try this

1. You go to a big sale - they are selling registered Angus females - some of these females have horns....what do you think?
2. At another sale there are registered Angus with white on heir faces (spot, not like I am a really old cow with grey hair)....what do you think?
3. You are looking for a bred heifer and get a catalog - a picture catches your eye - it is a cow sired by Eskimo Joe out of a Double Stuff cow bred to Double Vision...(there is no mention of genetic testing anywhere in the catalog)....what would you think??
4. You buy a bull at a sale for pretty big bucks - when you go to have the bull DNA tested for collection he doesn't verify to the listed sire. You call the seller and he says it must have been a mistake - they thought the bull was born to the AI date but it must be the herd bull - sorry, he can't help you, you bought the bull....what do you think?

1- I would not be at the sale, I am shorty person. If they have horns Oh well. Not familiar enough with Angus to know. But I would certainly inquire about the lineage.
2- I would think they missed the ultra white and didn't paint that far up.
3- Buyer be ware. If you complete the sale without any inquiries and get home to have a genetic disaster you bought it. Stupidity is not an excuse, the law does not recognize that as an excuse. I would certainly ask sale day before I purchased the animal and then decide. May be alright, momma may be clean.
4- Agree with TJ on this one. Unless it would change my intended purpose of use I would approach the seller reasonablely first and then with a court order second. If it was intentional Fraud then I would prosecute.

I think we in general have to be aware of sales that are not publishing all the data on sale day of suspected carriers. I think the hard question should be ask if you are truly interested in the animal. If the sellers waiver and are dishonest or say, well of all the calves she had, she never had a TH or PH one- RUN away....... (dog)

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

OK so this is reality - real situations - real people - no  names - sure don't want the great defenders to accuse me of slander and have been waiting for Mr Frostbite to come up with a topic, but he's been too busy and too tired, so lets try this

1. You go to a big sale - they are selling registered Angus females - some of these females have horns....what do you think?
2. At another sale there are registered Angus with white on heir faces (spot, not like I am a really old cow with grey hair)....what do you think?
3. You are looking for a bred heifer and get a catalog - a picture catches your eye - it is a cow sired by Eskimo Joe out of a Double Stuff cow bred to Double Vision...(there is no mention of genetic testing anywhere in the catalog)....what would you think??
4. You buy a bull at a sale for pretty big bucks - when you go to have the bull DNA tested for collection he doesn't verify to the listed sire. You call the seller and he says it must have been a mistake - they thought the bull was born to the AI date but it must be the herd bull - sorry, he can't help you, you bought the bull....what do you think?

1 - run as fast and as far as you can unless you're looking for commercial females or recips.
2 - refer to answer #1
3 - either refer to answer #1 or get a money back guarrentee subject to test from breeder IN WRITING.
4 - Contact breed assn. and check their breeders guarentee by laws. If not covered in bylaws . consult lawyer
    it's amazing what an official letter from a lawyer can do to make people rethink their possition.

 

[DLD]

1) & 2)  I call b.s... Know that anything and everything you see there better be taken at face value only... Someone's word is not good.

3) What TJ said (great line btw, TJ). Buy at your own risk.

4) Pocket Money fits that bill (as well as many others, I'm sure). Once again someone's word isn't good, but in the end all you can really say is lesson learned. Papers don't mean so much to me that not having them would negate the value of the bull, but if they do to you, let the breed association know - it won't put money in your pocket, but it might get some sanctions against the breeder so that (hopefully) it won't happen again. (actually, I'd let the association know too, as well as the rest of the free world)

 

[ELBEE]

Stupid is as stupid duh-hus.

Run Forest, run

 

[knabe]

1.  ask them what the dealio is
2.  ask them what the dealio is
3.  i would ask for results, and bid if i thought i wanted her anyway, test her, and if positive, breed accordingly
4.  next question is compensation of some kind.  if none coming, progressively apply the pressure.  in the future, ask for guarantee that high dollar bulls type.

 

[Show Heifer]

Thinking before Thanksgiving dinner is not a good thing....but.
1. I would not trust the pedigree OR the seller. An angus sired ANYTHING should not have horns, registered or not.
2. White in front of the udder, or above the underline is NOT eligiable for registry...but of course that depends on who you are.
3.I would call and inquire about DNA testing, and when the tell me they didn't test, I would laugh out loud and hang up.
4.I would give the breeder ONE chance to refund my money, then I would call my lawyer and sue. And you know what "pain and suffering, and inconvience" is worth these days?????

I have gotten several catalogs the past few weeks, and gish.....makes me want to raise sheep again. They have fully accepted the DNA testing.

 

[shorthorns r us]

Thinking before Thanksgiving dinner is not a good thing....but.
1. I would not trust the pedigree OR the seller. An angus sired ANYTHING should not have horns, registered or not.
2. White in front of the udder, or above the underline is NOT eligiable for registry...but of course that depends on who you are.
3.I would call and inquire about DNA testing, and when the tell me they didn't test, I would laugh out loud and hang up.
4.I would give the breeder ONE chance to refund my money, then I would call my lawyer and sue. And you know what "pain and suffering, and inconvience" is worth these days?????

I have gotten several catalogs the past few weeks, and gish.....makes me want to raise sheep again. They have fully accepted the DNA testing.

what do all the codes mean in the DNA tests on the sheep

 

[DL]

Stupid is as stupid duh-hus.

Run Forest, run

The first annual Golden Gobble Award (for the most profound statement in the fewest words) goes to ELBEE!

Runner up (I guess that would be the Silver Gobble Award) - Road Warrier

PART 2 of the question -
Would you buy from these people? Would you trust them and /or their cattle? 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Stupid is as stupid duh-hus.

Run Forest, run

The first annual Golden Gobble Award (for the most profound statement in the fewest words) goes to ELBEE!

Runner up (I guess that would be the Silver Gobble Award) - Road Warrier

PART 2 of the question -
Would you buy from these people? Would you trust them and /or their cattle? 

NOT ON YOUR LIFE! The first lie is the hardest - the rest come easy.

 

[Show Dad]

Only way I would get close to these people is if they moved in across the road!

 

[Show Heifer]

Trust them? Nope.
But I also believe in the saying: Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me!!!

 

[strawroanlova]

this is a reply to number 4,if you buy the bull and the man tells you its something its not then he needs to refund you like any good person would