$2200 PRIME Example......

[jbh]

It appears the initial purchase price of the Grand Champion Steer at this years American Royal was made by a trader for only $2200.  The point in me saying this is not intended to harm anyones reputation, but SIMPLY to point out the MANY variables involved in our crazy little business of showing steers.

First of all, from what I understand, the steer calf when sold the first time was a bit green in condition, but extremely hairy and big boned.  Second of all, he was NOT out of a "popular" bull that had yet produced many, if any, major show winners. 

How many times have we as potential buyers been looking at this exact same scenario, knowing you're either doing something really SMART or really STUPID.  Well this time the forces aligned positively, and with the help of probably one of the best homes in the country....a CHAMPION is produced.

Now I'm NOT against our industry bringing in as much MONEY for our product as we can.....better us than a boat or automobile company getting it.....we've had this discussion on here before.  But unfortunately not everyone can pay these extreme purchase prices.  Dont' get me WRONG.....more power to you if you can, and chances are 95% of the calves that win aren't going to be cheap.

But this is the PRIME example, coming from a guy who has believed SO MUCH in a bull from day one, and had EVERYTHING in the world go wrong promoting one that could, that if you'll just keep your eye sharp, and "NOT look at watch you see, but instead see what you're looking at".....you might just catch a break too. (remember....I started showing calves out of my Dad's feedlot.....and WON!) lol

Of course, this steer got higher every time he was traded, and what Goretska's gave for him was not cheap.  But isn't it nice to know that at least the opportunities still exist if we can recognize them!

The floor is now open for discussion.....lol

 

[goodnight]

It appears the initial purchase price of the Grand Champion Steer at this years American Royal was made by a trader for only $2200.  The point in me saying this is not intended to harm anyones reputation, but SIMPLY to point out the MANY variables involved in our crazy little business of showing steers.

First of all, from what I understand, the steer calf when sold the first time was a bit green in condition, but extremely hairy and big boned.  Second of all, he was NOT out of a "popular" bull that had yet produced many, if any, major show winners. 

How many times have we as potential buyers been looking at this exact same scenario, knowing you're either doing something really SMART or really STUPID.   Well this time the forces aligned positively, and with the help of probably one of the best homes in the country....a CHAMPION is produced.

Now I'm NOT against our industry bringing in as much MONEY for our product as we can.....better us than a boat or automobile company getting it.....we've had this discussion on here before.  But unfortunately not everyone can pay these extreme purchase prices.  Dont' get me WRONG.....more power to you if you can, and chances are 95% of the calves that win aren't going to be cheap.

But this is the PRIME example, coming from a guy who has believed SO MUCH in a bull from day one, and had EVERYTHING in the world go wrong promoting one that could, that if you'll just keep your eye sharp, and "NOT look at watch you see, but instead see what you're looking at".....you might just catch a break too. (remember....I started showing calves out of my Dad's feedlot.....and WON!) lol

Of course, this steer got higher every time he was traded, and what Goretska's gave for him was not cheap.  But isn't it nice to know that at least the opportunities still exist if we can recognize them!

The floor is now open for discussion.....lol

I will chime in. My background is not in the show steer business. We don't play in that game, although it is very tempting to try. It always irritates me when people complain about the cost of a calf, or how so and so spends so much on their calves. Here are my points when I confront this argument.

First, that is their family entertainment and their business. If they choose to use their vacations to show, that is their business. We spend tons of money carting down Jimmy and Susie to Disneyworld, or to some cheerleading camp, or to ______ (fill in the blank). The point is that is how they choose to spend time as a family. That should be encouraged rather than scoffed at. And, last time I checked getting up at 6AM to rinse and get calves ready for an 8AM show is hardly a vacation.

Second, those families that spend that kind of money do so to compete. If someone wants to compete, they have to do what is necessary to do so, within the rules of course. I wouldn't let my son play football unless he is willing to condition and lift during the summer (my boy is 5 months, so we don't have to worry about this for a while). I would expect him to condition because I had an ACL tear when I half butted it during summer workouts. I didn't get to compete because I wasn't willing to put in the work that it took.

Finally, and most importantly, I always tell these two stories to people that scoff at the families that pay the money for a calf. I paid a pretty penny for a heifer back in 95 when it my swan song to show. She was good, I kept her till last fall when I had to put her down (I cried as a 32 year old when I did it), and we have 5 daughers of her in my herd. I would do it again in a heartbeat. But, I got reserve angus heifer to a calf that was raised by a family in their own herd at our county fair. My heifer went on to a solid show career, but on that day she was second best to a home grown calf. It happens.

The second story is about a lamb I showed, again, during my swan song. At our county fair he got sick and looked really poor. The judge, who was a family friend, gave it a red ribbon. I should have kept it at home and let it get over the bug it had, but I was stubborn. Two weeks later at our district show the lamb was grand champion, and it was second in its class to the grand lamb at the Missouri State Fair. The point with that story is that you can't give up on these animals. Sometimes they just need time and hard work. I bought that lamb for $100 from my neighbor, by the way 

Anyway, good work with My Turn. My experiences in life have told me my gut is right more often than not.

 

[jason]

Good post.  The internet should also help level the playing field.  Just yesterday there was either 60 topics created or replied to in the Classifieds section.

Patience and a keen eye.  

 

[knabe]

giants and rangers are in the world series and both NY teams and sox are at home.  don't know why anyone would whine about this scenario.

 

[kfacres]

I've got a whole damn herd of $1200 calves that are big boned, shaggy haired, and from more "unknown" bloodlines.. I could care less if they get sold for a trillion dollars, all i ask for is 1000-1200.  I'm not out to make a killing, just break even...  Just need someone to come in and buy them, when i have them available. 

 

[Throttle]

I just brought home 4 from a really green NE set 10 days ago that averaged about that...anyone want to buy the next major champion for $5000   ;D  ??

Seriously though, I had the pleasure of watching Macey help get sale calves ready that weekend as well and she appears to be pretty good help for her age. As a parent of similar aged kids, it was a joy to watch. I'm sure she had put in more than her share of time with this steer, which is always nice to know.

It is also a great example of what a difference the daily care and feeding makes on these calves. We sell a lot of $2500 ones that we see as having great potential, then they get worse every day of their life bc families just throw feed at them and hope for the best. It starts with a keen eye, but even one that has everything going for it requires a serious commitment of time and effort, and then you throw in some luck for good measure

 

[chambero]

There are a million stories like this one.  Some can be extremely frustrating for breeders trying to sell calves when you can't even get buyers to come look.  My father-in-law was/is one of those frustrated breeders.  What we do now is primarily for my own sons to show.  We still sell a few, but that's not our focus.

I've told this before, but for those who have never heard it:  In the fall of 2003, two very prominent traders in Texas left steers standing in our pasture at a price of $1500 each.  Two of them wound up in the dome at Houston as a breed and reserve breed champion.  One of them later went through another very prominent club calf auction.  He brought a little over $2500, but the very prominent auctioneer screwed up and kept running him and the calf was "caught".  Calf went home with us again.  We later wound up trading that calf for a heifer just to get him shown.  After the kid's parents took the $12,500 they pocketed from Houston, they went on to a great and glorious show career buying and showing calves from darn near everyone in Texas but us.  My father-in-law gave them all the bird and every calf we would have had for sale in the spring of 05 went to the feedlot.

It takes a lot of effort, but calves can be bought from breeders at astonishingly low prices.  Most of us do it because we love it, certainly not because we depend on club calf sales for a living.  Most of what you are paying for with traders should be the access to their knowledge and help - which is very valuable.

Congrats on My Turn hitting a lick for you.  I'll be ordering semen on him later this week.

 

[rf21970]

Great posts guys. You can't buy an eye for good cattle. Not everyone has it, but those that do have an advantage over those who can only evaluate quality by the size of the price tag.

 

[jbh]

There are a million stories like this one.  Some can be extremely frustrating for breeders trying to sell calves when you can't even get buyers to come look.  My father-in-law was/is one of those frustrated breeders.  What we do now is primarily for my own sons to show.  We still sell a few, but that's not our focus.

I've told this before, but for those who have never heard it:  In the fall of 2003, two very prominent traders in Texas left steers standing in our pasture at a price of $1500 each.  Two of them wound up in the dome at Houston as a breed and reserve breed champion.  One of them later went through another very prominent club calf auction.  He brought a little over $2500, but the very prominent auctioneer screwed up and kept running him and the calf was "caught".  Calf went home with us again.  We later wound up trading that calf for a heifer just to get him shown.  After the kid's parents took the $12,500 they pocketed from Houston, they went on to a great and glorious show career buying and showing calves from darn near everyone in Texas but us.  My father-in-law gave them all the bird and every calf we would have had for sale in the spring of 05 went to the feedlot.

It takes a lot of effort, but calves can be bought from breeders at astonishingly low prices.  Most of us do it because we love it, certainly not because we depend on club calf sales for a living.  Most of what you are paying for with traders should be the access to their knowledge and help - which is very valuable.

Congrats on My Turn hitting a lick for you.  I'll be ordering semen on him later this week.

Chambero......I  FEEL your pain.....but unfortunately I don't have a cure. BELIEVE me, you are NOT alone.

Our industry is a very complex one when viewed as an actual business.  It's really no different than a basketball manufacturers business(weird example, I know).  We are producing a product (the breeder/manufacturer) that is going to be redistributed to many other kids and adults (the trader/corporate sales staff), for the new owner to try and become as good with as they possibly can, and to see just how high a level of success they can achieve.

There are all different kinds of actual basketballs being made, used by all different skill levels of athletes......much like calves and cattle showmen/fitters.  Very FEW make it to the pros....and if you do make it to the pros, that means you HAVE to make a living doing it then.  I've been on both sides of the fence (literally) on this issue, and it can be very hard to balance.  Some traders don't want ANYONE to know where their calves come from for fear of this very example with the Am. Royal this year.  Now all the sudden the breeder of this steer becomes a rockstar, and his crudentials and calves subsequently go higher.

On the other hand(your hand).... breeders bust their rear 365 days a year with every aspect of raising one, and would like to be paid for it AND receive recognition.  Tracy Goretska probably handles this issue about as good as any trader I know.  He tells anyone who wants to know, where the calf came from.....he'll generally even tell you how much he's got in the calf, and views it as an actual business deal, not a swap meet.  And if the breeder strikes it big, then the next year if he can't afford to buy your best one, he'll put it in his sale on partnership.

The key to success is no one getting greedy......and everyone staying realistic.  I always told breeders to expect the worst and hope for the best.  Then you have to remember that once a calf is sold HIGH by a trader.....they have to get paid for it!  And lots of times this isn't EASY!  So breeders, if you ever produce a winner.....SHOUT it from the highest mountain.....once! Get the traders attention, and then form a positive relationship (if at all possible)lol.  When it boils right down to it, neither one of you are really much good without the other......so the better you can get along, the better you'll get along.  (this wasn't directed at you Chambero, just in general)

 

[CMAHerefords]

I think it was in 2006.

The Wisconsin State Fair Reserve Champion steer did not sell in Carrousel Farm's sale (floor was $900). The herdsman's daughter then picked out the calf just for an average show steer for her to show at her county fair. At the county fair it stood 3rd in class. 2 weeks later it sold for $30,000 (STATE RECORD) and was crowned Reserve Supreme steer.

 

[fed_champions]

The guys who trade cattle, have great access to the cattle accross the country for cheap prices. The fact that they can run accross country and pick up cheap cattle, by buying in bulk, gives them an advantage over a single buyer looking for a deal. Think about it, if someone comes to your farm and wants to buy 10 head for 1500 a piece, ur gonna jump at the opportunity. However if u give someone else first pic, that steer jock is no longer interested and u lose out  on 10,000 dollars, even if u sell first pick for 5000

 

[Show Heifer]

I am going to go where no one has dared. Traders are having success because many of the "halter holders" have no idea what a good calf is.  All they know is that after someone fluffs and stuffs them, they get a ribbon. They don't know why they got the color of ribbon they got (judge said "something", but don't know what that means). So, in order to get a "good calf" they must rely on someone else to find it for them. Besides, Mom and Dad are too busy to make multiple trips to farms, sorting through calves, and actually hauling it home. Much easier and more convenient to have someone else do the work for you (Ex. why buy cookie dough when it is far cheaper and takes a whompin 4 minutes to make cookie dough from scratch).  Plus, many times, if you as a buyer play your cards right, you will get care of calf, clipping, and hauling thrown in for "free".
The calf will be halter broke/show broke at the very least.  If you hunt pastures, doubtful if the calf is halter broke.
So yes, bargins are everywhere IF your willing to do the work yourself. If not, well, probably not.

Do I blame the "traders/jocks" for taking advantage of the "unknowing or unwilling"? Nope.  That's America, take advantage of someone not willing to do what your willing to do.

(By the way, the hunt really is the best part!!)

 

[knabe]

so doesn't it make sense to create more halter holders so more money can be made?

i don't get it why they need to be bashed.

the more there are the better things are for everyone up and down the food chain.

 

[Show Heifer]

I am not bashing them.
Simply stating that most kids show cattle for "fun", not to learn about cattle. So they don't know the difference between a good one, and a great one. Many of their parents are also interested in "fun" and not into finding the finer details of selecting a champion.  To support my hypothises (is that spelled rights?) just look at how many show heifers that do not own a cow herd. They show for the social aspect, for the fun, and for the "prestige"(Again, is that spelled right?). They will leave the finer details of selection to someone else and pay the price. Many times, they leave a lot more of the work to, but that is for another thread!!

That is MY reasoning why many good prospects are left in the pasture or are bought for way under the money by a trader.....

 

[farmin female]

This is one of those great topics that can go on for days.

I have to admit, I've been around the barn a few times (and through the pasture and over the fence) to be "mature" enough to not really give a hoot how other people run their operations.  If they have the money to spend, let them.  I do have to chuckle when I hear of one of those 20k plus steers ending up at the packers though.  What impresses me more is honesty and integrity.  Rare commodities these days. 

But, I also have to agree with Show Heifer.  The hunt is the best part.  I love looking at cattle and could do it all day every day if I could.  And working with breeders is generally better than the jocks though I have done both.  We live in an area without many show breeders so we have to travel some distances to look.  But what memories we have made.  Last year my son and I drove almost 1600 miles in one weekend to check out one - yes I said ONE - breeders calves.  We probably spent something like 24 hours in the car flying across mountains and flatlands.  We talked about all types of things, sang songs, told jokes and I listened to him snore.  Lots of people told me I was crazy.  But I wouldn't trade that memory for one of those 30K calves.  And yes,  we did buy a calf from the guy.  One of the best, if not the best, calf we have ever bought.  And at a respectable price. 

As a side note, our state fair grand was a $1800 steer.  The breeder threw him into a group of steers a jock was working on buying to sweeten the deal.  $1800 was what the jock sold him for.  Not the original price.....

 

[GONEWEST]

Congratulations on your success with My Turn. I submit that you are very fortunate that Tracy wound up with the calf. Obviously by that time he was really good. Many traders would have made that calf Heat Wave sired.  This is a generalization, but if people are going to pay a big price for a steer that's what they want to buy. In turn of course the traders want to sell what you want to buy. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that many champions have been sired by either no name bulls or even household name bulls that didn't get the credit for their performance. This is in no way a negative comment toward Heatwave. It's just that his success has fueled this.

Also I think you are fortunate because of the care the calf got. I believe the My Turn calf you looked at in OH last year could have gotten you a state fair win or two if he had gotten into the right family instead of going to a county fair he won and then had to be slaughtered. Obviously your bull is as capable as any of them. You just have to get the right circumstances to come together to prove it. I hope all your effort will pay off now.

To touch on another part of your post, SOMETHING has to be done to promote the showing of cattle as a youth project. This is the second year in a row our state fair numbers are down. The people who want to show and compete is not down, but maybe they have 1 or 2 less calves and maybe someone brought a home raised one instead of buying a $1500 calf. On the other hand, goats and pigs are WAY up. It's a reflection of the economy. Here the vast majority of our families who participate are not full time farm families. Here the depression, (recession, what ever) has had a much bigger effect on employment than it has in some Midwestern states who's economy is largely ag based. Here ours was manufacturing based and we make nothing in this country anymore. Not knowing if you are going to have a job next week isn't conducive to buying a $2500 show calf. Possibly there is nothing to be done about that side of the equation other than to ride it out. I had a  MAJOR trader tell me a couple months ago that there is no way if he had kids showing they would show steers. It'd be goats and pigs. The cattle project was too expensive.

But the other part of the down turn that possibly something can be done about is the big gap between the "haves and the have nots."  I'm not for things that "level the playing field" like giving all kids good grades or all little league players trophys. In adult life there is and always will be the Golden Rule,  "those with the Gold make the rules."  We have parents who believe and in most cases are correct, that they can't compete with the $20,000 steer and it's entourage of jocks and fitters. So they buy a goat or a pig. They can get beat for much less money. If they are die hard cattle people they reason "I can stand in the same place with this $1000 steer as I can with your $5000 steer." The calf won't be as good but the place will be the same. I understand their discouragement and it is discouraging as a breeder. I am not against those with gold by any stretch of the imagination. But to turn this around we have to create more "halter holders" as Knabe put it. And I don't really have any answers on how to do it other than to have other contests along with the cattle show like they do at junior nationals so that there are more opportunities to compete and win. Of course that would require more effort from those in charge and that ain't gonna happen. So................

 

[yuppiecowboy]

clap clap clap.GW, you have always been a voice of reason and I commend you.

 

[russfarm]

(By the way, the hunt really is the best part!!)

I whole heartedly agree!!

 

[kfacres]

This is one of those great topics that can go on for days.

I have to admit, I've been around the barn a few times (and through the pasture and over the fence) to be "mature" enough to not really give a hoot how other people run their operations.  If they have the money to spend, let them.  I do have to chuckle when I hear of one of those 20k plus steers ending up at the packers though.  What impresses me more is honesty and integrity.  Rare commodities these days. 

But, I also have to agree with Show Heifer.  The hunt is the best part.  I love looking at cattle and could do it all day every day if I could.  And working with breeders is generally better than the jocks though I have done both.  We live in an area without many show breeders so we have to travel some distances to look.  But what memories we have made.  Last year my son and I drove almost 1600 miles in one weekend to check out one - yes I said ONE - breeders calves.  We probably spent something like 24 hours in the car flying across mountains and flatlands.  We talked about all types of things, sang songs, told jokes and I listened to him snore.  Lots of people told me I was crazy.  But I wouldn't trade that memory for one of those 30K calves.  And yes,  we did buy a calf from the guy.  One of the best, if not the best, calf we have ever bought.  And at a respectable price. 

As a side note, our state fair grand was a $1800 steer.  The breeder threw him into a group of steers a jock was working on buying to sweeten the deal.  $1800 was what the jock sold him for.  Not the original price.....

This reminds me of trips with my mom... and just to let you in on a little secret.. the teenage son snoring goes both ways... moms do that too! (lol)

 

[Hollywood27]

Where did the calf originally come from?  What was the breeding?