A.O.B. Bull Bracket Nomination Mulligan “Do over”

[Nasc]

A.O.B. Bull Bracket Nomination Mulligan “Do over”

Bulls nominated for this classification can not be registered in the Shorthorn, Maine, Angus, Simmental, Hereford, or Charolias breed.
“Hence the name A.O.B. ie All Other Breeds”
Also, please give the breed when nominating the bull.
This Mulligan will run till Friday…………………
So far we have:


Red Angus
FCC Rambo 502----------------------3
Mulberry-------------------------------3

Chi Bulls
Carpe diem---------------------------2
Ildeno--------------------------------2

Limi Bulls:
Polled Pack Leader
Punch
EXLR Dakota
GPFF Blaque Rulon
AUTO Black Dakota
Touchdown
Wulf's Quarterback
TEXS Ranger Ted
TEXS Ranger Primo
Punch
Orion
Harvest Olympus

Red Angus:
Canyon Chief
  TKP Bodacious
  Glacier Logan
UBAR High Capacity 224
LCHMN Grand Canyon 1244G
Logan 210
King Rob 8621
LCC Southern King 1765K

If we do not get enough nominations for a some what clear top 9 then I will use my executive privileges to decide who will be the 9 bulls represented for the A.O.B. division of the bull bracket.
I would like to have four different breeds represented but we can make it work with just the three we have to date.

 

[OH Breeder]

Destiny's Ace- Chi
Sugar Ray- Chi
Schwarzkopf- Chi

 

[afhm]

Who Da Man-chi
McCarney-cross
Grand Canyon-red angus
copyright-angus+
quarterback-limmy

 

[Show Steaks]

who da man  chi

 

[Show Steaks]

destiny's ace  chi? chiangus?

 

[Nasc]

Red Angus
FCC Rambo 502----------------------3
Mulberry-------------------------------3
LCHMN Grand Canyon 1244G--------2

Chi Bulls
Carpe diem---------------------------2
Ildeno--------------------------------2
Destiny's Ace- Chi-------------------2
who da man ------------------------2

Limi Bulls
Wulf's Quarterback-----------------2

Limi Bulls:
Polled Pack Leader
Punch
EXLR Dakota
GPFF Blaque Rulon
AUTO Black Dakota
Touchdown
TEXS Ranger Ted
TEXS Ranger Primo
Punch
Orion
Harvest Olympus

Red Angus:
Canyon Chief
  TKP Bodacious
  Glacier Logan
UBAR High Capacity 224

Logan 210
King Rob 8621
LCC Southern King 1765K

CHI-
Sugar Ray- Chi (Already in tourny as a clubby)
Schwarzkopf- Chi


Crosses
copyright-angus+
McCarney-cross

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Who Da Man-chi
McCarney-cross
Grand Canyon-red angus
copyright-angus+
quarterback-limmy

Grand Canyon is a Marble Bone carrier - not a particularly desireable inherited trait to propagate IMHO. RW

 

[Show Steaks]

good point rw but look at all the th and pha bulls listed as well as some AM bulls

 

[cowgirl]

good point rw but look at all the th and pha bulls listed as well as some AM bulls

Thank you Show steaks!  I agree

 

[DL]

good point rw but look at all the th and pha bulls listed as well as some AM bulls

Thank you Show steaks!  I agree

Ah yes, lethal genetic defects - lets continue to propagate and promote them in all breeds and crossbreds too - a round of applause for equal opportunity lethal genetic defects (clapping)

 

[cowgirl]

Ah yes, lethal genetic defects - lets continue to propagate and promote them in all breeds and crossbreds too - a round of applause for equal opportunity lethal genetic defects (clapping)
[/quote]

Thats not what I said.  Grand Canyon has been used very heavily in the RA breed and just last year was identified as a OS carrier.  With 3772 calves sired as of 2008 I don't know anyone who has ever had a dead calf.  Not saying there hasn't been any because I obviously can't account for everyone, but you would think you would hear of some.  Just saying if you use a little common sense when breeding--- like not breeding him to a carrier animal you can still utilize the strengths of his predigree.

 

[DL]

Thats not what I said.  Grand Canyon has been used very heavily in the RA breed and just last year was identified as a OS carrier.  With 3772 calves sired as of 2008 I don't know anyone who has ever had a dead calf.  Not saying there hasn't been any because I obviously can't account for everyone, but you would think you would hear of some.  Just saying if you use a little common sense when breeding--- like not breeding him to a carrier animal you can still utilize the strengths of his predigree.

OS affected calves are aborted early and rarely found - explaining why perhaps you didn't hear about them. The cow, checked pregnant in fall, is open in the spring. Not sure how not knowing anyone who ever had a dead calf is relevant - there is a lot of SSS with dead calves and with OS the calf may never be found - with all the great clean RA bull there isn't any good reason to use a carrier of a lethal genetic defect. Not using carrier bulls goes a long way toward decreasing the prevalence of lethal recessive genes in the population

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Using Grand Canyon on "clean" cows does not eliminate the gene from all of the offspring, a percentage of the resulting offspring will also be carriers of the defect. This alone will decrease the value of the resulting "dirty" calves to the point that it out weighs the risk for me at least. I know of one instance that occurred before the defect was identified. A friend of mine used Grand Canyon and retained a bunch of heifers from this mating, unknowingly he used another bull that has now been identified as "dirty" on these heifers. When calving season rolled around (he had not preg tested the heifers) several of the G C daughters were not AI bred (2 of 30 were), 7 were open, and the rest had calves by the clean up bull, some very late. At the time he chalked it up to them being not very fertile as a group and shipped almost all of them. This is only speculation at this time but unknowingly using "dirty" genetics could be a reasonable explaination. He is fairly good at AI and ran 70+% on the rest of the cows so I don't think that was the problem. How many "dirty" bulls have been sold to commercial cattlemen either knowingly or unknowingly over the years that they have retained daughters from? How many more bull will these same buyers buy "because he's a hell of a bull for the price and I've never had any defect problems before"? RW

 

[Show Heifer]

Your right RW, using carrier bulls on clean females only creates more carriers, but no dead calves. The continued use of carrier bulls on clean females will eventually lead to more dead calves, as their will be more carriers for that potential to be realized.
I can also tell of a farmer who had some "mystery calves" that wasn't reported in the red angus breed.  I think that falls under the "what the hell, but oh, never mind" catagory. Looking back, yep, probably was.

Since the "light has come on" I think you will find more of these "mysteries" being discovered and reported.

In a recent article in the simmi mag, some dude wrote about defects. He quoted a researcher that said that in every registered breed there is a 5-6% misreported pedigree. So all these "free by pedigree" words are basically meaningless to me.  Give me the test result, I will give you my money.

I believe that no bull, regardless of breed, should be in the top and considered "the best" if they are a carrrier of a genetic defect.

But, I do vote for High Capacity 224, and Rambo 502 in the red angus catagory.

 

[frostback]

LOL how you could turn a just for fun GAME into yet another genetic defect discussion is beyond me.

 

[shortyjock89]

LOL how you could turn a just for fun GAME into yet another genetic defect discussion is beyond me.

I agree. Just because a bull is "dirty" doesn't mean that he hasn't influenced the breed in a big way. 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I usually stay out of the defect discussions - BUT, for those of us that are not used to dealing with multiple genetic defects in our breed ( at least not discovered) it is not something that I choose to ignore. Yes, Grand Canyon influenced alot of cattle in our breed because he was highly promoted and highly used. He has also propagated alot of defect carrying offspring which in my oppinion has inflicted more damage to the breed as a whole than ANY of his "clean" sons or daughters will ever do. Many of his once thought to be "great" offspring have tested dirty, are they still great? Not in my book and apparently not in alot of other responsible breeders either. I have personally watched some of these "great" individuals sell after the test came out and they are literally worth pennies on the dollar. A former donor cow that fetched over $20,000 was worth about $16,000 less - a $6,700 daughter sold for $1200.00 - a $10,000 grandson was worth about $1500 a week after the sale when the test results came back. We are not a "steer" breed so it does matter if his sons/daughters are carriers. I sell breeding stock to my customers and I take that job very seriously. So yes, Grand Canyon influenced the Red Angus breed alot but not neccassarily in a good way. RW

 

[Show Heifer]

Influence is different than being the "best"....

How you can be offended by simple discussion is beyond me.... I guess we are even. lol. 

 

[DL]

Influence is different than being the "best"....

How you can be offended by simple discussion is beyond me.... I guess we are even. lol. 

SH - if you remember the purse discussion you will better understand how people can be offended by a simple discussion  <chill> (cow) (cow) (cow)