aj
Well-known member
Has there been a discussion of milk types on here? It seems most of the Kit Pharo cattle are a2a2 in milk type?
A2A2 milk.
- Thread starter aj
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A2A2 milk type is generally more of a dairy issue than with beef production. There are basically 2 types of milk, A1 and A2, but an animal can have either or both variants of the gene. You can have milk that is A1A1, A1A2 or the A2A2.
Cow’s milk is composed of fat, protein, lactose and minerals. Beta-casein is one of six milk proteins and is produced by the CSN2 gene. Twelve genetic variants of CSN2 are known which cause changes of certain amino acids in the beta-casein protein and alter its properties. These variants can be classified into 2 groups (A1 and A2) which code for different amino acids at one specific site in the gene. Milk containing A2 beta casein is considered to have health benefits and is better suited for making cheeses.
Their have been some studies that have apparently linked the A1 type of milk to many health issues including Type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and autism among the possibilities.
Also it seems that breeds of cattle that are better suited for grass finishing carry this A2A2 gene.
Cow’s milk is composed of fat, protein, lactose and minerals. Beta-casein is one of six milk proteins and is produced by the CSN2 gene. Twelve genetic variants of CSN2 are known which cause changes of certain amino acids in the beta-casein protein and alter its properties. These variants can be classified into 2 groups (A1 and A2) which code for different amino acids at one specific site in the gene. Milk containing A2 beta casein is considered to have health benefits and is better suited for making cheeses.
Their have been some studies that have apparently linked the A1 type of milk to many health issues including Type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and autism among the possibilities.
Also it seems that breeds of cattle that are better suited for grass finishing carry this A2A2 gene.
aj
Well-known member
I heard some talk that said 50% of Angus Cattle were a2a2. I heard that a batch of Kit Pharos Angus-Red Angus went 80% A2A2. Is there a chance that A2A2 milk would be better for calves than A1A2 or A1A1? What are some labs that do the work? What is the cost of testing? Could I test my Shorthorn or Shorthorn-Red Angus composites? Are there differences between Red And Black Angus? If lactose intolerent people can handle A2A2 milk but not A1A1 milk.....would there be a difference in calves. Has a calf ever been born that was lactose intolerant? What are the majority of purebred cattle that are A1A1? What about Limi's and chi's. Could a condition such as A1A1 milkers in beef breeds be mis-interpeted as poor milkers in epd's?
librarian
Well-known member
Gerald Fry has a site called Artisan Beef Genetics (yes, that name almost stopped me from checking it out). His Milking Shorthorn bull is AR Commander 168, a Native bull, I think. He is supposed to be homozygous A2. I have also seen A2A2 milk as a selling point on Devons. I think that yellow waxy skin is an indicator.
There is an A2 Genotyping test that the UC Davis can do, the cost of the test is $25. We are in the process of being able to provide a test for crossbred dairy cattle, I would have to check and see if this same test could also be used for beef cattle. There are about 15 traits involved with this test, and I think that some of them would be of benefit. I will find out tomorrow and post what I find out. This test will be $28
The A2 type milk has been branded by the A2 Milk Company in New Zealand and they hold the patent World wide on the testing and marketing of A2 Milk.
Hy-Vee grocery stores in the Midwest are selling A2 milk.
A1 and A2 beta-casein are genetic variants of the beta-casein milk protein that differ by one amino acid. While some breeds seem to have a higher frequency of the A2 gene, the ONLY way to know for sure is thru DNA testing.
Just as with other traits, an animal that is A2A2 is homozygous for that trait. So two animals that are A2A2 will only produce A2A2 offspring. If an animal is A1A2 and bred to an A2A2 then about 50% of the offspring will be A2A2 the other 50% will be A1/A2. Animals that are A1A1 when bred to an A2A2 would have 50% of the offspring be A1A2.
Higher milk production is associated with the A1 gene while the A2 is associated with higher protein and beta casein that is more desirable for cheese making.
It is also believed that people that are lactose intolerant, is not because of the lactose but because of the A1 and A2 gene.
The A2 type milk has been branded by the A2 Milk Company in New Zealand and they hold the patent World wide on the testing and marketing of A2 Milk.
Hy-Vee grocery stores in the Midwest are selling A2 milk.
A1 and A2 beta-casein are genetic variants of the beta-casein milk protein that differ by one amino acid. While some breeds seem to have a higher frequency of the A2 gene, the ONLY way to know for sure is thru DNA testing.
Just as with other traits, an animal that is A2A2 is homozygous for that trait. So two animals that are A2A2 will only produce A2A2 offspring. If an animal is A1A2 and bred to an A2A2 then about 50% of the offspring will be A2A2 the other 50% will be A1/A2. Animals that are A1A1 when bred to an A2A2 would have 50% of the offspring be A1A2.
Higher milk production is associated with the A1 gene while the A2 is associated with higher protein and beta casein that is more desirable for cheese making.
It is also believed that people that are lactose intolerant, is not because of the lactose but because of the A1 and A2 gene.
In the US it seems that there is starting to be some interest in the testing for the A2 gene, not just with the dairy side but also beef. With it being a test that appears can be done on any breed or combination of breed, we will see if that test can be offered thru us at a reasonable price, and we will also see if we can group it with some other test that would be of value to producers, that may make the cost more feasible.
We are working on this and should have more information within the next day or two. We will keep you posted.
We are working on this and should have more information within the next day or two. We will keep you posted.
We will be able to do the A2 test. The price for this test will be $15 per head. We should be able to have an order form available on our website in the next day or two. www.compositebeef.com
We will continue to see what we can do as far as putting a beef type test together that would have other traits associated with it including the A2.
We have had some very interesting conversations this morning. and one thing that we may look at for the beef test that comes from the dairy side is milk, fat and protein.
One thing that has came out in some conversations is there are three thing that are all interrelated and that is butterfat, Intramuscular fat, and tenderness.
We will continue to see what we can do as far as putting a beef type test together that would have other traits associated with it including the A2.
We have had some very interesting conversations this morning. and one thing that we may look at for the beef test that comes from the dairy side is milk, fat and protein.
One thing that has came out in some conversations is there are three thing that are all interrelated and that is butterfat, Intramuscular fat, and tenderness.
aj
Well-known member
cool
aj
Well-known member
It seems like if you wanted a strategy or direction in developing a herd or breed of maternal cattle.....and if marbling and fleshing ability IS correlated tightly with A2A2.......since the A2A2 marker is known...hmmmm. Use bulls with A2A2 markers.......for say 3 generations......you may selecting for marbling without knowing exact genetic markers for it. Makes as much sense as making them shorter, longer, taller, thicker, hairier or whatever the flavour of the month is. Wouldn't be as much fun though.
aj
Well-known member
Apparently Fry thinks he has tested a Milking Shorthorn for A2A2 anyway.
WalnutCrest
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
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- 11
This is a subject I've been intrigued by for a few years ... whether A2 milk is positively correlated with superior animal performance in the pasture AND superior performance on the plate (i.e., increased overall palatability).
We run fullblood (i.e., 100%) Aubracs. Given three things about the breed (i -- the premiums received for their beef in a couple higher-end branded beef programs in Europe (most notably Fleur d'Aubrac) ... ii -- the long history of French using their milk for cheese making ... and ... iii -- their ability to perform on pasture alone), I would not be surprised to find out that a large number of Aubrac bulls are homozygous A2.
Are any of you familiar with the work up at Quantum Genetix (http://genetix.quantumgenetix.com/)? I've not yet run any of my cattles' DNA through their labs, but I'm intrigued with what they're doing with their work on calpain and leptin, etc.
CBCR ... please let us know what you're planning on combining for tests ... I'm asking because (in a perfect world), I'd be able to get the following tests in one shop --
* Calpain testing
* Leptin testing
* Myostatin (I've been asked if Aubracs are double muscled, but they're not ... just thick and dense)
* Beta Casein - A1 vs. A2
* Beta Casein - A vs. B
* Kappa Casein
* Beta Lactoglobulin
* Horned / Polled
* Coat Color
* Parentage
We run fullblood (i.e., 100%) Aubracs. Given three things about the breed (i -- the premiums received for their beef in a couple higher-end branded beef programs in Europe (most notably Fleur d'Aubrac) ... ii -- the long history of French using their milk for cheese making ... and ... iii -- their ability to perform on pasture alone), I would not be surprised to find out that a large number of Aubrac bulls are homozygous A2.
Are any of you familiar with the work up at Quantum Genetix (http://genetix.quantumgenetix.com/)? I've not yet run any of my cattles' DNA through their labs, but I'm intrigued with what they're doing with their work on calpain and leptin, etc.
CBCR ... please let us know what you're planning on combining for tests ... I'm asking because (in a perfect world), I'd be able to get the following tests in one shop --
* Calpain testing
* Leptin testing
* Myostatin (I've been asked if Aubracs are double muscled, but they're not ... just thick and dense)
* Beta Casein - A1 vs. A2
* Beta Casein - A vs. B
* Kappa Casein
* Beta Lactoglobulin
* Horned / Polled
* Coat Color
* Parentage
WalnutCrest
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 11
aj said:
...but, it could be much better eating!
librarian
Well-known member
AJ, I know you're sick of me being repetitious about this, but just try putting a Galloway cross into a group of females. Take the calves and raise them on your worst ground, give them your worst hay and butcher them arbitrarily at any age past 16 months. The hanging weight may not be much to brag about, but compare the marbling to whatever your usual program produces. If you save any F1 females, compare the weaning ratio to that of your usual program. That Galloway milk is high octane-maybe its A2A2. The Vikings ate a lot of cheese. Working at a problem backwards isn't always the long way around.
From some of our research A2A2 is of more importance to the dairy industry, there have been proven health benefits to humans for the A2 milk. As for the importance of A2 type milk in the beef industry, it seems that there has not been enough research done on this to see if it has merit.
The general consensus though is, that if A1 type milk is supposed to be bad for humans, wouldn't the same also be true for calves nursing a cow? At this stage there are only theories, some also seem to think that breeds of cattle that are more suited to organic or grass fed environments may be more prone to have the A2 type trait. BUT, the only way to know if A2 gene is in an animal is to test.
There seems to be other factors that can be associated with growth, rate of gain, and days to finish and certainly the Leptin trait is one that comes up.
One thing in trying to figure out on being able to test for certain traits is, are those traits tied to certain markers that are specific to each breed, or are the markers basically the same that are present in all animals.
We know that the A2 test can be done on any animal regardless of the breed or breed makeup. There are a few traits that all seem to work together and would be of value and importance to All producers and all sectors of the beef production system.
It seems that from producers that we visited with yesterday concerning some genomic testing is the apprehension toward understanding how some of the traits can be accurately portrayed in a DNA test such as stayability and fertility.
Their is growing interest in many of these traits and being able to test for them. Could some of these traits working together be the key to producing a better beef product for consumers?
The general consensus though is, that if A1 type milk is supposed to be bad for humans, wouldn't the same also be true for calves nursing a cow? At this stage there are only theories, some also seem to think that breeds of cattle that are more suited to organic or grass fed environments may be more prone to have the A2 type trait. BUT, the only way to know if A2 gene is in an animal is to test.
There seems to be other factors that can be associated with growth, rate of gain, and days to finish and certainly the Leptin trait is one that comes up.
One thing in trying to figure out on being able to test for certain traits is, are those traits tied to certain markers that are specific to each breed, or are the markers basically the same that are present in all animals.
We know that the A2 test can be done on any animal regardless of the breed or breed makeup. There are a few traits that all seem to work together and would be of value and importance to All producers and all sectors of the beef production system.
It seems that from producers that we visited with yesterday concerning some genomic testing is the apprehension toward understanding how some of the traits can be accurately portrayed in a DNA test such as stayability and fertility.
Their is growing interest in many of these traits and being able to test for them. Could some of these traits working together be the key to producing a better beef product for consumers?
aj
Well-known member
Lets test all the breeds milk.........it would fascinate. Its probably not do able but what about bison bison(our modern day buffalo). If the Aurochs and the european bison had the same origin I would like any info studying this question. I assume the markers would be different than a beef cow. Maybe not......maybe similar.
librarian
Well-known member
How about Yak milk? I think the cattle on the Iberian peninsula of Europe are the closest related to Aurochs. Iberian cattle.
I would guess that all true beef cattle are at least heterozygous for A2. Selection for more milk may also be selection against A2. Maybe its like that obese gene- an adaptation to store fat, only the fat goes into the milk.
I would guess that all true beef cattle are at least heterozygous for A2. Selection for more milk may also be selection against A2. Maybe its like that obese gene- an adaptation to store fat, only the fat goes into the milk.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
On point again librarian. I guarantee you those homozygous A2 cattle are poor milkers.
Just like with different energy feed rations. If the ration is lower energy, then you must feed more of it to compensate. And vice versa.
Just like with different energy feed rations. If the ration is lower energy, then you must feed more of it to compensate. And vice versa.
As we look into the A2A2 situation we are seeing other things that can effect the production and quality of the milk produced by a cow. One of those is Leptin, the presence of Leptin shows that calves grow and wean heavier, has an impact on carcass quality, cattle that are positive for Leptin also have better feed efficiency, finish in the feedlot sooner and is shown that cows that are positive also produce more milk.
A2 has to do with an amino acid, and it is thought that people who are lactose intolerant, it may not be the lactose but the the A1 and A2 gene. A1 has been associated to increased cases of type 1 diabetes, heart conditions, autism and other health problems. People who are lactose intolerant have been told to drink goat milk. Goat milk still contains lactose, but it is high in the A2A2. So lactose intolerant people can also consume the A2A2 milk from cows with no problems.
Research studies of the effect of A2 in beef production have not been done on any large scale yet, but thoughts by many are that if the A1 milk is bad for the health of us as humans wouldn't the same hold true for the milk that a beef cow produces for her calf.
There was a time when all cows only produced the A2A2 milk, but there was a gene mutation, (don't know when) that created the A1 gene. This gene is primarily associated with the Holstein and Friesian cow. All breeds of cattle carry two copies of the genes, so you can have cows that are A1A1, A1A2 OR A2A2. Some breeds do seem to have a higher percentage of animals within those breeds to carry the A2A2 gene.
There is no way to visibly tell if animals do or do not have the presence of these genes.
A2 has to do with an amino acid, and it is thought that people who are lactose intolerant, it may not be the lactose but the the A1 and A2 gene. A1 has been associated to increased cases of type 1 diabetes, heart conditions, autism and other health problems. People who are lactose intolerant have been told to drink goat milk. Goat milk still contains lactose, but it is high in the A2A2. So lactose intolerant people can also consume the A2A2 milk from cows with no problems.
Research studies of the effect of A2 in beef production have not been done on any large scale yet, but thoughts by many are that if the A1 milk is bad for the health of us as humans wouldn't the same hold true for the milk that a beef cow produces for her calf.
There was a time when all cows only produced the A2A2 milk, but there was a gene mutation, (don't know when) that created the A1 gene. This gene is primarily associated with the Holstein and Friesian cow. All breeds of cattle carry two copies of the genes, so you can have cows that are A1A1, A1A2 OR A2A2. Some breeds do seem to have a higher percentage of animals within those breeds to carry the A2A2 gene.
There is no way to visibly tell if animals do or do not have the presence of these genes.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
What about the phenotypical indicators you mentioned? One referred to the volume of milk and the other had to do w/ a grass type!?
aj
Well-known member
xbar explain your a2a2a being poor milkers. I might throw this out there. Buffalo in the USA........the bison bison anyway......I was told milk very little volume.......but high butterfat milk? Apparently this has worked in nature for tens of thousands of years. If the a2a2 deal worked similarly.......you would have a more effecient process in delivering milk.....developed through.....(wait) natural selection. A cow that produces a bathtub volume of milk every day might not be the most effiecient way to do things.
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