ACE in the bloodstream

[box6rranch]

Can someone tell me if a small amount of ACE was given orally to a 1100 pd steer how long would it be detectable in the bloodstream?

 

[showsteerdlux]

That would be a yes.

 

[knabe]

i got ace in my blood this morning.

Ace Frehley Guitar Solo Tokyo Japan 1977

an average navigator, but little if any memorable licks.

ok it's out now.  no blood test needed.

 

[OH Breeder]

Acepromazine can be administered by the intramuscular route, taking effect within 30–45 minutes, or may be given intravenously, taking effect within 15 minutes. Sedation usually lasts for 1–4 hours, although some horses may feel the effects for up to 24 hours. The standard dose is highly variable, depending upon the desired effect following administration. An oral gel formulation is also available (Sedalin gel). The dosage by this route is also highly variable, but it is generally accepted that the recommended dose will give moderate sedation in most horses.

Acepromazine is a prohibited class A drug under FEI rules, and its use is prohibited or restricted by many other equestrian organizations. It can be detected in the blood for 72–120 hours, although repeated doses may make it remain present for several months.

 

[DL]

Can someone tell me if a small amount of ACE was given orally to a 1100 pd steer how long would it be detectable in the bloodstream?

There appears to be a considerable amount of lack of knowledge on this board (and in the world actually) about how drugs work - of course the ads on TV add to this basic misunderstanding

Here is the primer
1. To work a drug must reach its target tissue - in the case of acepromazine the target is the brain - doesn't matter how you give it, it has to get to the brain

2. Different drugs have different targets

3. Drugs travel in the body via the blood stream - therefore to get to the brain it must go into the blood stream

4. Some drugs travel in the blood stream bound to other molecules, others travel free

5. Drugs leave the body primarily by being metabolized (broken down) by either the liver or kidney - some drugs are excreted in the urine unchanged others are metabolized to compounds that are also active

6. The rate that a drug leaves the body is determined by the chemical composition of the drug, the dosage (this is not volume but the amount in mg or gms of drug), the route of administration, the number of times administered, by the health or sickness of the animal, by previous exposure of the animal to drugs that use the same metabolic pathway, by other drugs and compounds that the animal may be taking or eating

7. "a small amount" doesn't tell anything - you need to know concentration of a drug as many drugs come in various concentrations- for example if you give 1 cc (ie 1mililiter, ml) of a drug with a concentration of 10 milligrams per ml (10 mg/ml) you have given the animal 10 mg...however, if you give 1 ml of a drug with a concentration of 100 mg/ml you have given 100 mg of a drug (10 times the other) - read the label

 

[knabe]

perhaps the real question is what is the smallest amount that will have an effect that is undetectable if i win and i have to pass some sort of test.

 

[RyanChandler]

Depends on the standard cutoff threshold.  Also would need to know whether the test was for ace or ace metabolite.

 

[DL]

Depends on the standard cutoff threshold.  Also would need to know whether the test was for ace or ace metabolite.

or you could make a conscious decision not to cheat and then you wouldn't have to worry about it....

 

[RyanChandler]

What do the rules state?

 

[knabe]

raise a few 1/2 chi steers and then tell me if you calf needs ace.

seriously, those cattle are gone and we still need ace?

i guess a few professors used ace back in the day.

 

[RidinHeifer]

Wouldn't need ace if you spent a little more time working with your calf to get it used to things that scare it...if it is for a little kid maybe you should think of having a safe calf not a winning calf.  Size appropriate matters

 

[DL]

What do the rules state?

For those of you unfamiliar with the rules governing the use of drugs in the animals we raise for food - incredible that you missed it 

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=37866.msg327932#msg327932




Re: ACEPROMAZINE
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 12:06:29 PM »

Quote from: GoWyo on March 09, 2012, 10:42:00 AM
JDM said it was a "sale heifer."  If it is one for sale, then there is a question of whether it is ethical to tranq it and not disclose to buyer that the animal goes nuts in the grooming chute.  That being said, with as many cattle as ACE has been used on it would seem that it has been thoroughly tested enough to pass AMDUCA and ELDU by now.  Have there ever been clinical studies on ACE in cattle?  Maybe it is the variability of dosage that prevents labeling for use in cattle. 

DL, can you enlighten us on why ACE is not approved for cattle from a vet medicine standpoint rather than the legal labeling standpoint, which most people are aware of?


GOWYO The rules on drugs used for the animals we produce for food are complicated, unevenly enforced, and often not intuitively sensible. The vet med standpoint and the legal standpoint are pretty well intertwined.  Drugs approved for use in cattle have been tested, withhold and withdrawals determined, and efficacy assessed. Once they meet certain requirements they are approved for the specific species tested, for the route of administration, the dose and the conditions used. So if you look at Banamine it is not approved for pain management in cattle, but it is approved for for fever, if we use it for pain management technically we need to meet all the requirements for ELDU and AMDUCA. Since it is approved (for a different use) in cattle we know that if we give it in the approved manner (which happens to be IV) then we know exactly what the meat withhold is for the drug and we will not end up with violative residues.

The bottom line is that some drugs are approved for use in cattle - for example over the counter tetracycline - if it is used exactly according to the label there is no problem HOWEVER, if the farmer decides to increase the dose above the label does that falls under the Extra Label Drug Use policy (ELDU) which (by law) required certain things.

Any drug approved for use  in human or equine or canine etc that is not approved for use in cattle can only be used if the ELDU requirements are met  - medical grade DMSO, acepromazine, etc are NOT approved for use in cattle and therefor can only be used (legally) if ELDU requirements are met - you will note that drugs can be used only for therapeutic purposes (animal's health is suffering or threatened) - tranquilizing a heifer in a chute to clip her does not meet ELDU requirements and is therefor technically illegal.

ELDU REQUIREMENTS FOR USE
ELDU is permitted only by or under the supervision of a veterinarian.
ELDU is allowed only for FDA approved animal and human drugs.
A valid Veterinarian/Client/Patient Relationship is a prerequisite for all ELDU.
ELDU for therapeutic purposes only (animal's health is suffering or threatened). Not drugs for production use.
Rules apply to dosage form drugs and drugs administered in water. ELDU in feed is prohibited.
ELDU is not permitted if it results in a violative food residue, or any residue which may present a risk to public health.
FDA prohibition of a specific ELDU precludes such use.

There are also record and label requirements

RECORD REQUIREMENTS

    Identify the animals, either as individuals or a group.
    Animal species treated.
    Numbers of animals treated.
    Conditions being treated.
    The established name of the drug and active ingredient.
    Dosage prescribed or used.
    Duration of treatment.
    Specified withdrawal, withholding, or discard time(s), if applicable, for meat, milk, eggs, or animal-derived food.
    Keep records for 2 years.
    FDA may have access to these records to estimate risk to public health.

LABEL REQUIREMENTS

    Name and address of the prescribing veterinarian.
    Established name of the drug.
    Any specified directions for use including the class/species or identification of the animal or herd, flock, pen, lot, or other group; the dosage frequency, and route of administration; and the duration of therapy.
    Any cautionary statements.
    Your specified withdrawal, withholding, or discard time for meat, milk, eggs, or any other food.

There are also drugs absolutely positively forbidden to be used in food animals (ie ELDU NOT ALLOWED)
Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals (Current as of June 2003. Check for updates on the FDA Web site at www.fda.gov/cvm)

    Chloramphenicol
    Clenbuterol
    Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
    Dimetridazole
    Ipronidazole
    Other Nitroimidazoles
    Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, Other Nitrofurans
    Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cows (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine)
    Fluoroquinolones
    Glycopeptides (example: vancomycin)
    Phenybutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older
    Adamantane and neuraminidase inhibitor classes of drugs that are approved for treating or preventing influenza A are prohibited therapy in chickens, turkeys, and ducks (Effective: June 20, 2006)

I know people do it - that doesn't make it right.  I have heard the argument that we want to protect the kid or the public and I think it is bunk - I saw a tranquilized bull sleep through the sale - because the owner didn't want him to hurt anyone - IMHO he should have been burger.

You guys were all over Jody for his approach to youth and here you are teaching your kids to cheat and to use drugs that are illegal in food animals - we are producing food for human consumption - one would think that we would take the rules about drug use seriously - but apparently not when we might win a belt buckle.

Hope that clear it up a bit - it is a complicated, confusing conundrum and that doesn't even take into account the ethics of tranquilizing animals for show or sale

PS - don't shoot the messenger - I don't make the rules but I  abide by them

 

[box6rranch]

Update- I wasn't inquiring for personal use on my cattle. Our county fair doesn't allow for any type of sedation of animals. Par the course someone got caught doing it. Just curious if blood was tested how long it would remain in the cow's system.

 

[MSTF]

Wouldn't need ace if you spent a little more time working with your calf to get it used to things that scare it...if it is for a little kid maybe you should think of having a safe calf not a winning calf.  Size appropriate matters

Says the reserve champion.