Acepromazine

[DL]

Just a thought .... ace is not labeled for cattle use and never has been.  so how does everyone get it?  I know a few years ago when I needed it I walked into the vet and got it. Why do people give it out? Just thinking

Good question obie - my guess is that it is easier to hand it out than to do the right thing, easier to hand it out explain why it is not legal or ethical, easier to keep clients "happy" rather that pi**ing them off, easier to hand it out because people expect you to do it, easier to hand it out because it is unlikely there will be repercussions, easier to hand it out than think about the ethics or legality involved - just easier

 

[Tallcool1]

I know that you are very intelligent, and I know that you are well versed and understand the rules for proper administration of animal drugs.  (I darn sure know that you spell better than I do!)  I would never question any of that.  I just don't agree with you.  And the truth is, there are plenty of other people on this site that are intelligent enough to make their own decisions regarding how they choose to sedate their cattle before they go to a show.  The member just asked a simple question.  Why not give that member the information in the form of a simple answer, and let them make their own decision?  I really don't understand why there needs to be any kind of "bullying" because of it.  Unless the site starts a new Bullying Section in which case I could see the need for that type of behavior.  That is probably not a good idea, although it may have some merit?  That is another post. 

TC1 - I am well aware that there are many people who disagree with me and that certainly is their right - I am also well aware that people drug their calves and use the excuse that they are protecting their children and the public from a potentially crazy animal, these same people have no understanding of how the drug works or the potential side effects - people need to be aware of the laws and rules - which many are not - to make informed decisions. In addition to the legalities I think drugging show cattle is cheating - I know many do not

However - to specifically answer your question Why not give that member the information in the form of a simple answer, and let them make their own decision? I am not willing to lose my license to practice by either giving someone tranquilizers for show calves or recommending a dose of a drug that is not legal to use according to the ELDU and AMDUCA on a public forum. You can call it bullying I call it rule #53 "just the facts ma'm" (Sergent Friday, Dragnet

That is actually pretty funny!  Love the Dragnet reference!

I see your point as well, especially in terms of the liability that you would be exposing yourself to from the point of your profession.

For the sake of conversation, how do you view these "herbal" calming pastes that are on the market?  What about Melatonin?  Melatonin is certainly not being bottled for use in show cattle.  I realize that there are not labeling issues with Malatonin.  Are your opinions of drugging show cattle as cheating exclusive to chemicals that are restricted from a pharmaceutical angle, or is it more of an ethics thing for you?  FYI, this is a legitimate question, and not an effort to start an argument.  I value your perspective on this.

One other thing that I feel is worth saying, especially for the younger readers is that Ace/Rompun/whatever is a last resort for us.  We don't like to use it because it does funny stuff to the appearance of the cattle.  They just plain do not look as good when they have it in their system.  They drop in their back.  Some will drag their feet a little.  They don't want to hold their heads up.  And the list goes on and on.

 

[firesweepranch]

Just a thought .... ace is not labeled for cattle use and never has been.  so how does everyone get it?  I know a few years ago when I needed it I walked into the vet and got it. Why do people give it out? Just thinking

Good question obie - my guess is that it is easier to hand it out than to do the right thing, easier to hand it out explain why it is not legal or ethical, easier to keep clients "happy" rather that pi**ing them off, easier to hand it out because people expect you to do it, easier to hand it out because it is unlikely there will be repercussions, easier to hand it out than think about the ethics or legality involved - just easier

Funny you say that DL. We had a heifer in to the vet on Tuesday to have some major warts removed (she has been vaccinated and warts pulled off several times, but they come back even bigger!). Anyway, while we were working on the heifer (she is going to state fair) I asked my vet about a product I have heard of, Thorazine (not sure of the spelling) that people put in the nose or anus to take the edge off. He looked at me straight in the face and said if an animal needs Thorazine, it should not be at a show. Plain and simple! I was impressed with his reply, and I am sure if I needed the product (which I do not, melatonin works great for our edgy steer that is now in the freezer) he would not sell it to me. And we have a great relationship! So not every vet relents and gives in!

 

[obie105]

Thorazine(sp?) Is the 'good stuff'. I have seen 1cc up the nose basically lay one down. Ace doesn't usually have that effect on the ones I seen it used on. Ace will make them groggy and stumble but thorazine knocks them out. I agree with your vet if this has to be used they shouldn't be shown.

With your wart situation I should post the pics of a steer I had pry 15 years ago he had 3 surgeries and they came back bigger every time it was crazy! He was dragging a halter so we could catch and treat everynight and they actually grew over the halter so we couldn't take it off.

 

[RyanChandler]

Just a thought .... ace is not labeled for cattle use and never has been.  so how does everyone get it?  I know a few years ago when I needed it I walked into the vet and got it. Why do people give it out? Just thinking

The world wide web offers it all- from clen to equipoise, its all easily accessible.

 

[BGF]

I know that you are very intelligent, and I know that you are well versed and understand the rules for proper administration of animal drugs.  (I darn sure know that you spell better than I do!)  I would never question any of that.  I just don't agree with you.  And the truth is, there are plenty of other people on this site that are intelligent enough to make their own decisions regarding how they choose to sedate their cattle before they go to a show.  The member just asked a simple question.  Why not give that member the information in the form of a simple answer, and let them make their own decision?  I really don't understand why there needs to be any kind of "bullying" because of it.  Unless the site starts a new Bullying Section in which case I could see the need for that type of behavior.  That is probably not a good idea, although it may have some merit?  That is another post. 

TC1 - I am well aware that there are many people who disagree with me and that certainly is their right - I am also well aware that people drug their calves and use the excuse that they are protecting their children and the public from a potentially crazy animal, these same people have no understanding of how the drug works or the potential side effects - people need to be aware of the laws and rules - which many are not - to make informed decisions. In addition to the legalities I think drugging show cattle is cheating - I know many do not

However - to specifically answer your question Why not give that member the information in the form of a simple answer, and let them make their own decision? I am not willing to lose my license to practice by either giving someone tranquilizers for show calves or recommending a dose of a drug that is not legal to use according to the ELDU and AMDUCA on a public forum. You can call it bullying I call it rule #53 "just the facts ma'm" (Sergent Friday, Dragnet

That is actually pretty funny!  Love the Dragnet reference!

I see your point as well, especially in terms of the liability that you would be exposing yourself to from the point of your profession.

For the sake of conversation, how do you view these "herbal" calming pastes that are on the market?  What about Melatonin?  Melatonin is certainly not being bottled for use in show cattle.  I realize that there are not labeling issues with Malatonin.  Are your opinions of drugging show cattle as cheating exclusive to chemicals that are restricted from a pharmaceutical angle, or is it more of an ethics thing for you?  FYI, this is a legitimate question, and not an effort to start an argument.  I value your perspective on this.

One other thing that I feel is worth saying, especially for the younger readers is that Ace/Rompun/whatever is a last resort for us.  We don't like to use it because it does funny stuff to the appearance of the cattle.  They just plain do not look as good when they have it in their system.  They drop in their back.  Some will drag their feet a little.  They don't want to hold their heads up.  And the list goes on and on.

This might be the best post and thread I have ever read on here. 

 

[steerjock17]

2CC, squirt right in their ass...ya know under the tail where the poop comes out...lol.. no needle! OUCH!!! if still a dick hit em with 1 more CC..... thats not .@ cc either... Ace is the weak stuff.. could eat it like candy...

 

[NHR]

ace freely?'

This needs more recognition!!!  (clapping)

 

[NHR]

Back to the use of ACE (the drug). If your animal needs ACE to be shown then you probably should not show it (just my opinion).

Best way to calm down show animals is to work with them everyday by rinsing, brushing, practice showing, hauling them to small shows, and just working with them. Cattle are creatures of habit. If they are still crazy after working with them over time then they probably need to be culled out of a purebred operation.

Anyway back to  (pop)!!!!!!!!!!

 

[spcows2014]

I have given 3 cc of ACE to a show heifer and I doesn't seem to help anyone have any other options to help her calm down because show calm doesn't work either?

 

[cowboy_nyk]

If 3 cc of Ace doesn't work, she isn't a show heifer. She's hamburger (after the withdrawal period of course)

 

[OH Breeder]

I have given 3 cc of ACE to a show heifer and I doesn't seem to help anyone have any other options to help her calm down because show calm doesn't work either?

We had a steer 2 years ago from a major breeder. We tried for 4 months just to get him haltered. Purchased in a pasture sale. He must have been in one big pasture. He tore up more gates than any calf we ever had. Never came out of the corner of the pen. had short small sharp horns he used very precisely. We used all the legal routes of trying to calm the calf. He was just plain mean. Wanted to hurt you. The one herbal medication sold by a major show supply place meant to be fed everyday did nothing. Never effected him one bit. some animals are not meant for show.
If you can halter her and just take her to shows and not show her but go through the motions of trailering, tying etc do that few times how has she reacted. doesn't matter size of show just get her out to a show. You don't hve to show her. Just the noise and the routine sometimes works on calming them.

 

[DakotaCow]

I agree with DL ....ACE is never to be used on cattle. Alright, that said .75 cc up to 1.25cc depending on size of calf in the rectum 15 min before going into the show ring will do wonders.