Ag Teachers Better today or back in the day?

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

I dunno just wanted to see if i could get some feed back. Is it just me or do these people just not give a damn? I know a few Ag teachers here in Texas and there is no way i would let them pick out an animal for my kid much less tell them how to take care of the animal. Most seem to think they are some kind of hot sheit. Hell i went to college didn't take the easy Ag teacher way out, but i can do better by most kids than these wannabes.  Hell they just watched my cattle dominate them and they still have balls to act like they know what they are talking about(good thing im the silent type, because there is no reason say the wrong thing to them as they can be very moody). I especially love those city kid AgTeachers fresh out that took that three hour class on market animal evaluation trying to push kids into taking crappy cattle back to the barn. I walk around barns where i have sold cattle and see trash, hell my neighbor has better commercial cattle than some of the stuff i see in high school show barns. Oh well I sure do miss my old Ag teacher from back in the day, good guy old guy and made it apparent that he would find good cattle for us but was also man enough to say lets go look at all the choices not just the first calf he came up to. Are these new Ag teachers  just lazy,is it lack of cattle education, or is it just a paycheck and they dont care. These are the things i would like to know. Just had to vent. Don't get me wrong there are a few very good ones here in Texas but the majority couldn't scoop the crap in my barn. (thumbsup)
Yea i said it.

Had to tone it down, there are plenty of excellent educators in the state of Texas and i thank them for everything they do for the kids and for the industry. Without the network of Ag teachers im not to sure these cattle shows would exist in their present form. Hope this discussion can give us a better understanding.

 

[willow]

WOW!  We don't live in Texas, but here is our State/County we have had a good run of AWESOME Ag teachers.  Our current teacher doesn't know everything about selection and feeding, but he would walk 100 miles barefoot to help the kids in our County.  I think just like everything else there is good ones, there are bad ones, and it is just personal opinion.  Hopefully the bad ones get ran off before much damage is done! 

 

[JSchroeder]

"good thing im the silent type" - obviously.

 

[nkotb]

I agree with Jeff, our ag teachers may have their flaws, but as a whole are a very solid bunch that would do anything for the kids.

 

[JSchroeder]

I was just commenting on the "silent type" comment.

I think the post in general could be applied to anybody involved in selecting show calves and not just ag teachers.  They tend to catch an undeserved level of flack simply because they're the ones that are there and in public view.  There are a lot easier ways to make a lot more money than teaching ag.

 

[pjkjr4]

All you can ask of an ag teacher/extension agent is honesty and work ethic. Doesn't matter if he picks out a calf, pig, sheep, or goat that can compete with you or not. If he/she is honest, and has the drive, they won't be afraid to admit to you or your child that they're in over their head when it comes to livestock evaluation or fitting, or both, and will either find someone to help, or point you in the right direction. From the sound of your post, you don't need that sort of help anyway, so why bother. Maybe your ag teacher can help your child with record keeping, public speaking, shop projects, etc. but then again, with your attitude, why would he want to? His way would be wrong in your eyes, anyway.

You say that you chose not to go the "easy Ag Teacher way out", but he did.....so that makes you better? Some of the smartest people I know never set foot on a college campus. Yes, there are some bad eggs out there that I personally know, who would rather use their position to make money off of kids/families, but there are lots of great ones out there that work their tails off day in and day out to try and help make responsible adults out of these kids. My family and I feel so blessed that we have one of those teachers in our school. Oh, and by the way, when we buy our cattle every spring, (he's a hog guy, and a very good one) he comes to me and asks what kind of help that he can be to us in the upcoming year. He knows that we can do everything by ourselves, but he also wants us to know that he will do whatever to help my kids be a success.

Pardon me for saying, but you seem like the type of parent that would rather stir the pot, than you would serve the meal.

 

[MCC]

I'm sure there are some GREAT young ag teachers out there. Somewhere. However, around here the new ag teachers have been a HUGE disappointment. Many of them have been female. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against females, ( kinda like em ) and realize they can be good ag teachers too but just looks odd to us old timers. One neighboring town hired a new female ag teacher. The previous teacher worked for three years to get a grant to replace all the welders in the shop with new up to date welders and a plasma cutter. They came in after he left. The new teacher didn't know anything about teaching shop so that new equipment has set unused for 3 years. Instead they started a flower judging team. It seems to me alot of young people, not just teachers, get that piece of paper that says their smart, get a job and put in the minimum amount of time they have to. We had a ag teacher here for a while that got out of class at 3:00. At 3:05 he was walking down Main Street in shorts shopping instead of helping his students at the ag farm. When I went to school we had an ag teacher that worked all 12 months of his contract. He built the ag farm for kids that didn't have a place to keep their projects. He went to the bank and co-signed notes to help the poorer kids buy their project. Won county and state fair market hog and sheep show as well as NWSS several times with his students. Won the state dairy judging contest one year with his kids and then the next four years we had the state champion livestock teams. He built one of the best most dominate FFA chapters in the state because he CARED. I realize times are a lot different and some parents are alot different than ours were. They say you reap what you sew but if you don't water and weed in between your harvest can't be as great as it could be.

 

[shrek]

Not sure about everywhere else, but in Indiana the high school ag teachers probably have less responsibility (no show barns) than they do down south, but they are still some of the worst paid people per hour that I can think of.  There are good ones and bad ones, but speaking from experience, its not always their fault.  Administrations and regulations make it difficult for many ag teachers to do the quality job they would like to do.  Eventually they just get beat down by the system and just do what it takes to collect a paycheck and support their families.

 

[Show Steaks]

i thought my ag teachers/ ffa instructors were much better when i was younger now im graduated and in my last year of ffa but have already started to see the decline since leaving high school as a new teacher is coming in.

There is a major difference between book smart and farmer smart and i think that is the flaw with most of the new teachers

 

[chambero]

In general, most ag teachers/county agents know a whole lot more about showing livestock than they do the production side of agriculture.  That is my biggest complaint, but in reality most of their students don't need to know any more than general production stuff - most will never be involved in that side. Those that do aren't learning it from their ag teacher, they'll learn it as part of the family business or in college.

The other thing to consider is that the specific ag teachers you are talking about might be "pig people" or "sheep/goat people".  It's a very short list of teachers/agents that are very good at multiple species.  In the grand scheme, there are a lot more kids showing those projects than cattle.

What you do run in to in TX is ag teachers that really want their kids to do business with established "names" - at least ones that come from financially well-off towns/countries.  There are variety of reasons for this, not the least of which is that if those teachers have their own children showing, they will be "taken care of personally" if they bring business to jocks/traders.  In all honesty, I don't blame.  They don't make enough money to provide top end calves for their own kids at "retail" price.  But it can be frustrating for local breeders trying to get calves out to be shown by local kids.

It has been a long time since I've seen a school barn anywhere full of "crappy cattle".  There are too many good ones to pick from.  Out of curiousity, which shows are your cattle "dominating" everyone else at.  There ain't much dominating going on by anybody these days by anyone other than the very biggest outfits.  It's too darned competetive - especially in the Stephenville area if that is where you are from.

My ag teacher in the late 80s wasn't worth the oxygen he breathed.  His main purpose in life was to make lewd comments at girls in our class.  He'd shear sheep, but as students we had great practice learning to suture after he got done with them.  Overall, I'd consider ag teachers/agents to be a lot better now than they were in the 80s.  I have heard of plenty of great teachers that taught in the 50-60s if that is the era you were referring to.  But the middle age to younger teachers/agents we have now are products of maturation of the show industry in the 80s/90s and I think those folks are pretty good at what they do. 

 

[The Show]

I wasn't around back in the 80's so I can't really comment on ag teachers back in the day. However, I know first hand what its like to have a crappy ag teacher. I actually transferred high schools my sophomore year for a better ag program and teacher. I can name a LOT of older ag teachers that run great programs and know what their doing, but I can count on one hand how many young ag teachers I know that know what their doing. It seems the younger ag teachers that can pick cattle, fit, and show a kid how to feed are more or less jocks that became teachers. Not that that's a bad thing, but that's just the way it is.

 

[earl]

From someone who has been teaching ag for 30 some years,  I walk into the room with the young ag teachers and wonder how they got a job.  I also have a teaching partner who for the last six years has never been to a meeting and will not do anything on the weekend, spring break or summer.  The other five teacher in my school district only one wants to do anything.  We had a work day at school the other day three did not show up and one left early to go to the lake.  I work on a 10 month contract and still work all summer.  My travel has been cut to zero the last three years but I still go to all the majors and buy student projects all year.  Yes I like the heifers but I buy steers, lambs, goats and pigs also. If I do not know the answer I will know who to ask.  Part of the problem is that schools around us the least you do the more they like it because you spend less money. 

 

[vc]

I had once thought I would have liked to be an Ag teacher, now days not so much.  An Ag teacher at a local high school has been there for 30 years last ,year with budget cuts they had him teach chemistry since he had the credentials to do so, they had a different teacher (a non Ag teacher) teach the Ag classes for the periods that he taught chemistry.

Many of the students in the Ag classes are only there to fulfill their science requirements the have no interest in Ag, crowding the classes in a manner that the kids who actually have an interest in Ag do not get the instruction they desire.

I think the difference you see in the calves has widened since the early 80’s we could buy a commercial steer and compete, now you can not (at least most of the time). Most true Ag teachers should be teaching about genetics, Ag economics, animal health and more.

You can not teach Ag economics if the student is buying a $3500 steer feeding it $1500 and another $300 in supplements then selling the steer for 50cents over market. The statements I like to make is,” you are either in it to compete or you’re in it to make a profit”, it is very hard to do both. One school picks up the culls back east and sells them to the kids for $1200, most of them look cool at first glance but once you study them they are all structural train wrecks. The kids do a decent job of raising them they just can’t compete with the kids that are there to win.

If the kids raise an animal that lives, grades out, and makes a profit then the Ag teacher has done what they are supposed to do, the Ag teachers of old did that too, they just could do it and have students that had animals that could compete.

I am not saying all Ag teachers are good, but the things they are required to do now could have an effect on some that could be good.

 

[Educator]

Ok first off I am an AG teacher in Texas, so my opinion on this may be biased.  This is my first time to post but I have followed this web site for several years.  A little background about myself -  I teach in one of the most competitive cattle showing counties in Texas, my students have had breed champions in the breeding and market cattle shows in all of the Texas major shows multiple times.  My average purchase price for a show steer is $1500 and I sell a little better than 50% of those cattle at major livestock shows.

9 years ago when I first started teaching I thought that the AG teaching world revolved around showing cattle. We went to the east and west Texas fairs, the south plains fair, 4 weeks at the state fair, 2 weeks at Ft. Worth, San Antonio, San Angelo, Houston, and Austin.  One year I missed 73 school days at livestock shows. While some may applaud this, while I was at those shows with 8 kids 80 others were at school with a sub doing book work.  The key word in AG teacher is teacher, our #1 priority is educating students.  While I still appreciate a good show program I also appreciate teaching kids a valuable trade and that is difficult to do when you are absent almost half of the year.

Another thing you may not realize is that Texas colleges do not teach a whole lot of livestock classes. I had no "show animal" classes in college. On this cattle board I may be appreciated because I have a knowledge of cattle that comes from production experience. But on the show lamb and swine board I'm a dud because I lack the ability to compete at the top end. I am not too proud to admit that, I am also not too proud to ask for help. I realize some AG teachers might be but I want the best for my kids and if I cannot give it to them I know someone who can.

As my career has progressed I realize the value of a well rounded program, and yes the show program might suffer from this in the grand scheme of things but the majority of students benefit.

Also while you write this post bad mouthing Texas AG teachers they are away from their families with other peoples kids at the state FFA convention.

I apologize for any grammatical or spelling errors as I send this from my iPhone in a hotel on school business.

 

[cowman 52]

My time as a teacher was short-- I came through a program where in 5 years there were 5 american farmers-- me and brother were 2 of them--  college half way prepared us but school administration didevery thing possible to keep participatuion at the bearest of get by -  record books were a waste,  showing was frowned upon, judging teams were too much of a distraction to the spring program of anything but ag.  and I found it this way in severel places-- jumped ship went home and back to farming--  haven't made a fortune but oh the sights.
    no the teachers today just want the check or if they end up in agood program  the winnings but not at the risk of a little work

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

Also while you write this post bad mouthing Texas AG teachers they are away from their families with other peoples kids at the state FFA convention.

Isn't that their job, I travel all the time on business. I don't expect any different i know what i signed up for. Now if they were doing it for free like 4H leaders i would probably be more open to the idea of  feeling bad for them having to be at the convention. Which in no way is work, pretty much its a road trip albeit a fun one, but none the less no more than just a road trip.

You see guys i crossed the line again. There is the line, and there is me crossing it. Thats my one for the year, next year im going after feed stores. Just glad i could ruffle some feathers, yall take it easy and be nice to Ag teachers seems like they have it real hard.

 

[Educator]

I'm not picking a fight but yes this is part of the job but some school districts including mine have decided that summer activities like FFA camp, steer validation, and FFA convention are not worth paying us for and have cut our contracts. Many of us still do all of these things on our own dime.

And my feathers aren't ruffled. I know first hand there are some very bad AG teachers out there as there are 4H agents and cattle jocks. It's just how it is.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

Now that's not fair, most of the ones i know are on an 11 month contract and get a stipend for the activities you do for free. Not cool, you shouldn't have to work for free.

 

[missbee]

Well I see this from several points of view....
I'm a 5th grade teacher.... stipends are not a lot to write home about.... and decent AG teachers put many, many hours into the program... GREAT AG teachers you can/'t even shack a stick at their dedication to the kids and the program
BUT AG teachers should have a LOVE for their program
I'm a parent my kids come first... with that being said we as parents our doing a lot of research on our own because our new AG teacher has informed us she has 3 teenagers that need her therefore we are on our...she will only make about 4 visits to the AG barn for the year..... she will not transport the animals to any shows.... we can not use the school trailer.... so we are now looking for a stock trailer, fine I don't need to depend on anyone

BUT as parents we are willing to do this for our kids, we do this as a family project
But I have to agree with the other teacher about the 80 days of subs and bookwork... not fair to them.... there should be more than 1 AG teacher.... The AG program provides great learning experience to any child's life
So if you have a good AG teacher appreciate them and do your part to be a positive influence on the kids and the program

B

 

[WBar Farms]

Horrible in my opinion they shouldn't even call it future farmers of america becasue we didn't learn one thing about farming or anything important at all for that matter.  I think that ag programs have gotten caught up in all the ffa stuff that theres no real ag teaching even goin on.