AI Sires- Dial up BEWARE a BUNCH of pictures

[jrg]

I've never been to any facilities outside of REI's, but I've been stopping by REI for 10 years looking at bulls and never have I thought the facilities were lacking.  I think people are taking the condition of the pens and/or condition of the bulls from a few pictures and blowing it out of proportion.  When it rains at my place, the lots get muddy, REI/Hawkeye is no different.  When a cow at my place gets old and still produces, she loses some conditioning.  These bulls are AI sires, producers are managing them for maximum production.  When the bulls are younger(on ration, in a cool room), they manage them for promotion.  That doesn't always equate to good semen quality though does it!

I don't think the facilities or the handling practices of these studs should be blamed for the soundness issues on some of these bulls.  We know in the club calf world that you are going to get a cripple somewhere along the line, but we throw a fit and blame the stud if we see a poor picture of the bull?  Heat Wave is 9 years old!  He looked poor at REI when I saw him a few months ago compared to the young bucks he was next to, but I can't say that I was shocked by his appearance.  He is known to have some structural problems on some offspring, I understand if after 9 years of collecting he looks a little rough.  I talked to Hutch about him a few weeks ago, the owners where taking him to get his hooves trimmed after being collected for a few weeks.  It sounded like they were having more luck collecting him than they had in the past, so something is working.  If Griswold and now Lautner have housed bulls at REI, he must be doing something right.

Anyways, back to the reason I opened this thread...I took a few pictures when I was at REI back in May.  I'll post a few pictures tonight when I get home.  I think I had Monopoly, Copper Penny, WMW 2, Chopper, maybe a few more.

 

[HT]

WOW I am not at all impressed with Heatwave in his PIC.... He looks like hes got some structural issues the way he is standing...

 

[ruhtram]

He doesn't look to hot, but still throws those killer steers and bulls

 

[herefordfootball]

I agree with what Dusy wrote in the other thread, the bull can look like a cripple or some mangy butcher bull, but if he throws calves that are worth the money, then by gosh, I'm gonna use him.

 

[farmboy]

734 is the ugliest bull to grace the inside of a semen catalog

 

[HT]

Yeah he does have some awsome calves. But in that pic he doesn't look too hot!

 

[afhm]

While some are collected by the teaser method, many are collected with an electro-ejaculator? Do you know how that thing was developed? It was originally developed to try to stimulate muscle in soldiers legs who were paralyzed in either WWI or WWII, can't remember form school.  The ejaculation was a side effect. It was found that after time it degenerated nerves in the legs instead of stimulating muscle. It's no wonder these bulls that are collected in that way over a period of time become unsound.

I had always heard that that method was developed because of a common occurence resulting when men were put on the electric chair.

 

[knabe]

don't ever sneeze when you are going to the bathroom and you really should have sat down.

it's so funny when cattle do it, but embarrassing when you do it yourself.

 

[cowman]

knabe,

Thank you, that is the best laugh I've had in weeks...I needed that.

 

[ruhtram]

Haha good point.

 

[farmboy]

...public bathrooms...  :'(

(lol)

 

[knabe]

don't ever sneeze when you are going to the bathroom and you really should have sat down.

it's so funny when cattle do it, but embarrassing when you do it yourself.

the first time i saw that happen (in cattle) i thought it was impossible.

i think it takes some maturity and intolerance in humans (or too much coffee?) to be capable of doing it.

 

[Telos]

I saw several of these bulls almost 18 months ago and they looked exactly like this then. I know that some of these bulls have been in stud continuously since then and as I said in a previous post on here, that I am certainly concerned that at some point the SPCA could step in and make some seizures of some of these bulls.... not for the way they are being housed or fed, but because of the pain and suffering the are being forced to live in.  The condition that Heatwave was in has bothered me bigtime, since I saw him and the picture posted here truely suggests that nothing has changed. I have spent my entire life in this business and I do not think I have ever seen any animal suffering in the state this bull was in the day I saw him. The picture posted here indicates to me that he continues to suffer extreme pain.... for someone's greed. I apologize for being an alarmist here but, as a cattleman who has concerns about some of the things happening in this industry... and how the industry is being preceived by the public.... this stuff continues to really bother me!!!!

I would suggest that if you take a look at these bulls, there are some pictured that have , at least some structural soundness. There are others that are so structurally unsound I question how a few hot dogs show steers balance out with the damage they are doing to commercial herds and club calf herds where these genetics are being produced. There are a few bulls pictured here that I liked, and I think they have some excellent traits. There are a few bulls pictured here that I find so wrong in so many places, that I really question why they continue to be used. Just my opinion folks. You can raise whatever you want, but I would hope that these pictures cause even a few people to do a few minutes of sober reflection on what they are trying to do.



I have to agree 100% JTM... And always so well said. I just hope the next generation becomes more practical in the selection process. The relation between function and form has gone of track, IMO.

Just think this needs to be reiterated.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

Here's a pitch for everyone-

Has anyone noticed how many rookie bulls in Lautner's 2012 catalog are direct sons of Monopoly?  How many are direct sons or grandsons of Heatwave?
10 and 4, and 6 if you include Bojo offspring, which is strecthing it, I know.. (Sunseeker is out of a Heat Seeker dam, and Bojo has a Heatseeker grand dam)
Does anyone else realize what kind of genomic mess we will be in in about 30 years?  The gene pool on these popular cattle are so tight it's ridiculous.  I realize that only 75%~ are Monopoly sons/HW grandsons, but jesus, I bet you that 90% of semen sales from rookie bulls will be off those boys there.  Now I know that this isn't as big of an issue for dairy breeders, or angus producers, or people with purebred halfblood herds but IT STILL EXISTS.  I admit, If I was a guy that promoted bulls and sold semen, they'd just about all be Monopoly's since those are the best hitting the ground, just about hands down.  IT IS IN KNOW WAY THE BULL OWNERS FAULT, NOR AM I IN ANYWAY PUTTING THEM AT FAULT.  But does anyone else realize what kind of mess we're getting into?

A serious topic,
RCC

 

[farmboy]

Clubbys only make up a small percentage of all the cattle. We can still corrupt all the other breeds when the time comes (lol)

 

[cornish]

Here's a pitch for everyone-

Has anyone noticed how many rookie bulls in Lautner's 2012 catalog are direct sons of Monopoly?  How many are direct sons or grandsons of Heatwave?
10 and 4, and 6 if you include Bojo offspring, which is strecthing it, I know.. (Sunseeker is out of a Heat Seeker dam, and Bojo has a Heatseeker grand dam)
Does anyone else realize what kind of genomic mess we will be in in about 30 years?  The gene pool on these popular cattle are so tight it's ridiculous.  I realize that only 75%~ are Monopoly sons/HW grandsons, but jesus, I bet you that 90% of semen sales from rookie bulls will be off those boys there.  Now I know that this isn't as big of an issue for dairy breeders, or angus producers, or people with purebred halfblood herds but IT STILL EXISTS.  I admit, If I was a guy that promoted bulls and sold semen, they'd just about all be Monopoly's since those are the best hitting the ground, just about hands down.  IT IS IN KNOW WAY THE BULL OWNERS FAULT, NOR AM I IN ANYWAY PUTTING THEM AT FAULT.  But does anyone else realize what kind of mess we're getting into?

A serious topic,
RCC

nothing new.. when outcross is needed for club calves-- they'll just go to another breed for that option.  You know, char and angus and shorthorn and sim and maine-- the same as it's been forever.  Or better yet-- lowline and galloway here recently.  club calves make up such a small unimportant percent of the population-- who cares? 

 

[wyatt]

Here's a pitch for everyone-

Has anyone noticed how many rookie bulls in Lautner's 2012 catalog are direct sons of Monopoly?  How many are direct sons or grandsons of Heatwave?
10 and 4, and 6 if you include Bojo offspring, which is strecthing it, I know.. (Sunseeker is out of a Heat Seeker dam, and Bojo has a Heatseeker grand dam)
Does anyone else realize what kind of genomic mess we will be in in about 30 years?  The gene pool on these popular cattle are so tight it's ridiculous.  I realize that only 75%~ are Monopoly sons/HW grandsons, but jesus, I bet you that 90% of semen sales from rookie bulls will be off those boys there.  Now I know that this isn't as big of an issue for dairy breeders, or angus producers, or people with purebred halfblood herds but IT STILL EXISTS.  I admit, If I was a guy that promoted bulls and sold semen, they'd just about all be Monopoly's since those are the best hitting the ground, just about hands down.  IT IS IN KNOW WAY THE BULL OWNERS FAULT, NOR AM I IN ANYWAY PUTTING THEM AT FAULT.  But does anyone else realize what kind of mess we're getting into?

A serious topic,
RCC

nothing new.. when outcross is needed for club calves-- they'll just go to another breed for that option.  You know, char and angus and shorthorn and sim and maine-- the same as it's been forever.  Or better yet-- lowline and galloway here recently.  club calves make up such a small unimportant percent of the population-- who cares? 

seems to me they are trying to add herford into the equation again  :-\

 

[McM93]

The Hereford deal puzzles me to until I look at the birthweights....seems many have Heatwave in them and have tolerable bw... ???

 

[cornish]

The Hereford deal puzzles me to until I look at the birthweights....seems many have Heatwave in them and have tolerable bw... ???

don't think I've ever seen a bull advertised in the SC with more than 100 lb BW?  Puzzles me to.  I keep wondering why does the huge BW skip a generation, why does it go huge BW stacked on huge BW- until you get a promo bull-- then you get respectable BW--- then the next generation again back to HUGE BW?  I just don't get it. <deadhorse>

 

[sizzler14]

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