Albert and Walter's latest brainchild

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justintime

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I don't know about the rest of you but I am mad!  The latest promotional decisons of A&W are beyond ridiculous. They have decided that they will only use beef in their burgers that can be verified to be 100% hormone and antibiotic free. What makes me the maddest is what they don't say in this promotion. It suggests to the average consumer, that there obviously must be something wrong with the North American beef that they buy if a corporation like A&W can no longer use it. You bet this makes me mad!  At no time in history, have beef producers been more concerned about the ethical and safe production of beef for society. At no time in our history, has our food supply been safer. A&W also says in their promotion that they can no longer source enough beef from North American sources, that in their words, " leaves a smaller environmental footprint" is about as earth muffin ridiculous as I have ever seen.
I am so tired of corporations like A&W, trying to manipulate the public conception of the food supply, only to try to gain some market share for themselves... and they do this at the expense of the food producer, for whom they have little or no concern.
I was a pretty loyal supporter of A&W up until now. I always thought that of all the burger joints there were, that they provided the best product. I will not grace their doors for a long time now, and I hope others will do the same. This is beyond stupid. I have already sent A&W an email with my thoughts and I would urge others to do the same. I only have the email for A&W in Canada, but I am sure you can find the American email from your American cattle organizations. The Canadian email is [email protected].
Albert and Walter... it has been nice to know you!
 

cbcr

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Do you have a link or more info on their ad?

A&W Restaurants are headquartered in Lexington, Kentucky.
 

justintime

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I have just found out that this is just an A&W Canada inititive. Apparently A&W in Canada and the US are totally seperate. I still find this hard to believe that there is no connection between them, but in any regard, it is still a major slam against Canadian beef producers, and Canadian agriculture in general. I would suggest that it would be time well spent for Americans to write to A&W and tell them not to follow the lead of their Canadian cousins. This is BS, in its purest form!
 

Charguy

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This was bulk emailed to me today and has appeared on Facebook as well. Nobody knows who wrote it - if anyone does I would be happy to provide them with the credit as it is extremely insightful and full of facts. Im 100% with Justintime on this one. I view this as a slap in the face as a beef producer in Canada.

Sean


How Fear Marketing Ended a Tradition
When we travel to and from Agribition, our cattle caravan always makes a pit stop at A&W in Davidson.  It’s half way between destinations, we’re hungry and we always run into other cattle folk.

  Thanks to A&W Canada’s new marketing campaign that tradition is over. A&W has recently started a marketing campaign promoting beef with “no added hormones that is ethically and sustainably raised”. This results in “better beef”. Now how can I be against something that is more ethically and sustainably raised? My beef with A&W is not that they are trying to separate themselves from the burger, ahem, herd.  It is that they are doing it by manipulating peoples’ lack of understanding of food production, capitalizing on their fears while throwing ranchers under the bus.

A&W is claiming their beef is better as it is not treated with “added hormones or steroids and only receives antibiotics for therapeutic purposes.”  Their beef is “raised right.” They claim “Our beef has been raised by ranchers who practice ethical and sustainable farming methods. Many in the beef industry told us it would be too difficult for a nation-wide restaurant to fulfill this pledge. And sure, it’s not always easy—but doing the right thing rarely is. That’s why we work with ranches like Spring Creek in Vegreville, Alberta; Meyer in Helmsville, Montana; and Teys in Australia. These ranchers and their local partners follow the same stringent standards, raising their cattle with care and without any added hormones or steroids.”

Needless to say this marketing campaign went over like a lead balloon with ranchers.  Ranchers took to twitter and asked them to defend and prove that their beef was better than “conventional” beef.  I also posted my displeasure over their use of fear marketing saying “shame on you A&W for your new marketing campaign implying the majority of beef is bad and only your selected beef is good”.  Their response was “sorry you feel that way. Not our intention. Our consumers are asking for this beef and we’re delivering it.”  To which I replied ” it was too your intention.  You literally state your selected beef is better.” I haven’t received a response. Their twitter feed has fallen silent on the issue only occasionally regurgitating talking points.

So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

My first issue – for something to be better something needs to be worse.  A&W is only sourcing beef from 3 hand picked sources.  Meaning the beef outside this circle is not good enough for them.  By emphasizing their “hand-picked” ranchers raise beef ethically, sustainably and without added hormones suggests all other beef is hormone riddled, unethical and unsustainable.  By claiming their selected beef is better and “raised right” A&W is saying that the rest of our ranchers are not raising beef right.  This can turn the consumer away from beef producers who in fact are raising ethical, sustainable beef and potentially negatively impacting their livelihood and with no evidence to back up their claims.

My second issue – A&W claims it is only giving it’s customers what they are asking for.  There is no doubt in my mind when the marketing team rolled out their ground breaking question of “Would you prefer a burger with or without added hormones” they got a resounding “Without! For the love of god, without!”  This is because people fear what they do not know or understand.  We are not part of gathering our food any more.  We are not part of the decisions made on the farm.  We have no interest in learning which crop variety should be planted, which methods will get the highest quality yield yet keep our inputs low, what we should feed our cattle to keep them healthy while getting us enough dollars in the end to pay our bills. We have no need to research how to produce our food.  Someone else does that for us. We are not part of the decisions made in the feed lots or the meat packers. Yet we need to feel in control of our lives and that we are making educated decisions in areas that impact our lives.  Unfortunately it’s hard and time consuming to do real research. Many don’t have the knowledge, resources and time to dig through peer reviews scientific papers and evaluate the quality of the experimental design, the appropriateness of the statistical method used and if the conclusions drawn are more or less relevant than a different study with different conclusions.  Instead we Google and watch TV until we find a source we feel we can trust.  We avoid information promoted by industry groups and companies because they don’t care about the individual. We learn key words and head to the store and pick our food by the package that appeals to us the most and whose key words we recognize.  A&W could have used this opportunity to educate their customers on all the things responsible ranchers do to ensure their beef is raised in the best conditions possible in a way that is environmentally sustainable while producing a safe, healthy product.  Instead they went for key words such as “better beef” “raised right” to trigger emotional responses.

Lastly, I take issue with A&W’s claims period and how they place “conventional beef” outside their category of “better beef”.  One tweet in particular illustrated that point.  In response to a question A&W Canada responded that “not all beef in Canada is raised without hormones or steroids”.  When I responded back that while true beef raised in Canada even with added hormones is still safe and environmentally safe.  I’ve received no response. The big talking point in this campaign that is repeated over and over is that their beef has no added hormones.  With the backlash against “factory-farming”, “franken-foods” and the movement that “natural is always better” I completely understand how a bunch of suits trying to improve their bottom line would think this is a genius marketing ploy.  And it is.  Average mother trying to do the best for her kids while they demand burgers from the back of her SUV will likely pull into A&W thinking she’s making the right choice buying the burger with no added hormones.  She doesn’t want little Johnny to grow breasts and her sweet innocent girl to hit puberty at age 8.

Let me try my hand at marketing.  I am proud to say that I have the best burgers.  My burgers are raised by ranchers who care about their animals and are proud to raise beef in an ethical and environmentally sustainable manner.  Our beef is mainly grass fed.  Some are finished with a purely vegetarian diet.  No animal by products are fed to our cattle. Through the use of selective breeding and scientifically proven management techniques they raise their beef to efficiently convert feed to lean muscle.  These cattle use less feed, land, water and fuel to produce quality, healthy beef.  Our beef has been tested safe by both the FDA and Health Canada.

Sounds pretty good.  Now what if I tell you I’ve just described much of the Canadian beef program.  Still looking pretty good?  Now let me add that some of this beef has been implanted with hormones? Just lost support for my beef didn’t I?  Well let me see if I can get you back.

Let’s discuss hormone implants.  Hormone implants have been used in beef cattle since the mid 1950′s.  Hormone implants are placed in the ear between the skin and cartilage.  They are purposely put into the ear as the ears do not enter our food system.  The implant releases a small  dose of additional growth hormone over time.  Implants are not permanent.  They run a course of a range of days until the dose is used up.  Implanting the growth hormone into the ear having known, limited, doses, and food testing ensures the amount of added hormone that enters our food supply is limited.

Hormone implants are given to cattle to give their natural hormone levels a boost.  By increasing the amount of these growth hormones the metabolism of the cattle is directed to convert feed into lean muscle instead of fat. This allows us to produce more lean beef with less inputs.  This increase in efficiency in beef production reduces energy, feed usage and environmental impacts.  It also increases the  healthfulness of the beef by reducing the amount of fat.  This increased efficiency also helps your wallet by lowering  the cost of retail beef by 20 to 30 cents per pound. Four implanted steers produce the same amount of beef as 5 non implanted steers.  Each implanted steer can provide lunches for 7 more children than an unimplanted steer.  More beef from fewer animals also means less waste.

Many people may be thinking that  adding hormones to beef is just a method of helping the bottom line without a thought given to the health of the consumer.  We know that hormones regulate processes in our bodies and altering them can have effects on our bodies both positive and negative.  It is this knowledge that makes us leery of added hormones in our beef.  It seems completely logical that implanted beef has more hormones, I eat that beef so I’m absorbing more hormones, by absorbing more hormones I could be adversely affecting my health.  Therefore I will be healthier if I don’t eat those extra hormones.  While this is a logical thought process (one which A&W is counting on) it fails in reality on the basis of quantities.

Let me give you a little test.  I’ll even make it multiple choice:

If 1 pound of beef from “naturally raised” cattle with no added hormones contains 7 nanograms (ng) of estrogen how much estrogen is in 1 pound of beef from cattle which have been implanted with added hormones?
a) 10,896 ng/lb
b) 59 ng/lb
c)10 ng/lb

The answer is 10 ng/lb.  For reference 1 nanogram equals 0.000000001 grams.  So there is 0.000000007 grams vs 0.000000010 grams of estrogen in 454 grams of beef.  Both measurements are tiny.  The FDA has determined that beef from implanted beef is safe and the hormone levels so negligible that they pose no safety risk. Now how does beef compare to other foods? Various studies, including Hoffman and Eversol (1986), Preston, 1997, Hartman et al (1998), Shore and Shemesh (2003),USDA-ARS (2002), have tested the amount of hormones in implanted beef versus other foods.  A pound of cabbage contains 10,896 ng of estrogen and a pound of eggs contains 59 ng. Interestingly,  a 225g portion of potatoes contains 53 times the Oestrogen content of a 500g portion of beef from a treated steer, so if you’re heading to A&W to reduce your hormone intake, better steer clear of the fries too. The often touted “healthier than beef alternative”, aka. Tofu, contains 16,214,285 times more estrogen than the same amount of implanted beef.  Even when compared to other food sources, the amount of added hormones in beef is small and is only a teeny tiny fraction compared to what your body produces daily. Pregnant women produce 90,000,000 ng of estrogen a day. Non pregnant women produce 5,000,000 ng/daily, adult men produce 100,000 ng/daily and pre-pubescent children produce 40,000 ng/daily.  Even if you ate a pound of treated beef a day the amount of additional hormone you would ingest would be insignificant compared to amount you naturally produce daily and even smaller than the amount consumed from your side of veggies or fries, especially that tofu burger.

While A&W can stand by their claim that their beef is free of added hormones can they stand by the claim that it is better and more environmentally sustainable? There is no evidence that this beef tastes better or is safer or healthier but there is plenty of evidence to show that implanted cattle uses less resources while still producing quality, healthy and safe beef.  This is my beef with A&W “better beef” marketing.  It is a fear based marketing scheme with no evidence it is better and diminishes the great job our ranchers do to feed us and maintain productive land.
 

Okotoks

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The above post is very good. Here is my correspondence with A&W Better Beef
I actually think the fact they use the name Better Beef is as the above post says suggesting the other beef is worse with no facts to substantiate it!
Dan Stephenson <[email protected]>
8:04 AM (6 hours ago)

to betterbeef
I was sorry to hear that you are now misleading the public about the safety of Canadian beef as regards to the use of hormones and antibiotics. I don;t need to explain to that you are are wrong, you are just using this as a gimmic to try to increase sales and probably lower your costs.
A&W was my go to fast food place but now I regretibly will make sure to drive by!

Katherine Fraser 1:00 PM (1 hour ago)
Hi Dan, We're sorry to hear you feel that way. We have not made any claim about the safety of Canadian beef. Our guests have told us that making a burger with this beef is simply the right thing to do. As we have previously stated publicly, our beef costs are expected to climb as a result of this sourcing policy.

Thank you for letting us know how you feel,
- A&W Marketing Team
Dan Stephenson <[email protected]>
2:07 PM (10 minutes ago)

to Katherine
Hi Katherine
Thanks for your reply but seriously "your guests"? By implication you are suggesting that this beef will be healthier. If one of your sources is Australia then you have opted for cheaper imported beef when Canadian beef meets some of the highest standards in the world! As one of your former "guests" I'm sorry to see the spin you plan on justifying your decision with.
Regards
 

RyanChandler

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Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices. 
 

jaimiediamond

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Okotoks
I would love to  know how they avoid mixing the meat in the grinder?  You could have one steer that had a ralgo implant and three that didn't all in the same package....
 

mark tenenbaum

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The last "beef" I had at an AW was a frozen homoginized gainsburger that was probably 30% beef and 70% S@##$%&*t-WOOF WOOF!!! If you eat junk like that then you"ll believe anything/ :EVEN the kangaroo- rumered burgers at Jack in the Box were better than thaat DOG S$%%^**T Boycott em I say-they do not speak the truth-and thier suppliers dam sure dont. THEY ARE BUYING THIER BEEF FROM PROCESSORS BY WAY OF FEEDLOTS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE_NOT FROM ROMANTIC IDYLLIC "RANCHERS" IN NEVERLAND. Unfortunately-the public has no background in agriculture or general business-and believe this pompous sanctimonuos yuppie fantasy:while the deep fried 3000 calorie wanna bes "PLAY GREEN" with thier Holstien fiber enriched poluted crap. (lol) O0
 

Gargan

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mark tenenbaum said:
The last "beef" I had at an AW was a frozen homoginized gainsburger that was probably 30% beef and 70% S@##$%&*t-WOOF WOOF!!! If you eat junk like that then you"ll believe anything/ :EVEN the kangaroo- rumered burgers at Jack in the Box were better than thaat DOG S$%%^**T Boycott em I say-they do not speak the truth-and thier suppliers dam sure dont. THEY ARE BUYING THIER BEEF FROM PROCESSORS BY WAY OF FEEDLOTS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE_NOT FROM ROMANTIC IDYLLIC "RANCHERS" IN NEVERLAND. Unfortunately-the public has no background in agriculture or general business-and believe this pompous sanctimonuos yuppie fantasy:while the deep fried 3000 calorie wanna bes "PLAY GREEN" with thier Holstien fiber enriched poluted crap. (lol) O0
Bravo!! My thoughts exactly!! (clapping)
 

trevorgreycattleco

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-XBAR- said:
Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices.


Bingo.
 

cbcr

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333
It is one thing for businesses to make certain marketing claims, but to use scare tactics is wrong.  Part of the problem with them making such claims is that they cannot validate and guarantee that what they say is true, so they use scare tactics in making that claim.

Beef producers do an excellent job of raising, caring for and providing a quality product for consumers.  But today's consumer is wanting to know more about the foods they eat (beef, prok, fruits,vegetables,etc) but their is no verified information to backup claims that are made about the products.

While Charguy makes valid points or using hormones, consumers have every right to make a choice of not consuming beef that has had growth hormones, is antibiotic free, grass fed, organic or any other claim, that they perceive or feel that they are purchasing a product that satisfies their needs, right, wrong or indifferent.

Perception and what people see goes a long way, while these companies can visually use such scare tactics to making people think they are getting a better product, where is the proof from the beef industry that can show that these claims are false?  Sure the beef is USDA inspected, but where is the information that can prove that what is in the package or any other claim is true, it simply doesn't exist.

We as beef producers, while yes it true that we compete against each other to some degree we still have the same end goal in mind providing a good wholesome product for consumers, but we need to do a better job of providing honest, valid and verified information to the consumer.

 

BTDT

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cbcr said:
It is one thing for businesses to make certain marketing claims, but to use scare tactics is wrong.  Part of the problem with them making such claims is that they cannot validate and guarantee that what they say is true, so they use scare tactics in making that claim.
Beef producers do an excellent job of raising, caring for and providing a quality product for consumers.  But today's consumer is wanting to know more about the foods they eat (beef, prok, fruits,vegetables,etc) but their is no verified information to backup claims that are made about the products.

While Charguy makes valid points or using hormones, consumers have every right to make a choice of not consuming beef that has had growth hormones, is antibiotic free, grass fed, organic or any other claim, that they perceive or feel that they are purchasing a product that satisfies their needs, right, wrong or indifferent.

Perception and what people see goes a long way, while these companies can visually use such scare tactics to making people think they are getting a better product, where is the proof from the beef industry that can show that these claims are false?  Sure the beef is USDA inspected, but where is the information that can prove that what is in the package or any other claim is true, it simply doesn't exist.

We as beef producers, while yes it true that we compete against each other to some degree we still have the same end goal in mind providing a good wholesome product for consumers, but we need to do a better job of providing honest, valid and verified information to the consumer.
[/quote

Be careful there.  Last I looked, most ads were scare tactics, not to mention gov't policy. Heck, last time I went to a "farmer meeting", I heard the theory if the farm bill wasn't passed with full subsidy payments and no limits, food cost would sky rocket because many farmers would go out of business.  Nothing scary there huh?
Saw a tv commercial that was for a car that had 12 airbags. (Because if you drove a car with only 4 airbags you might die).
A commercial for a hotdog said "We don't use substandard beef. No if's, and's or butt's". Line was drawn toward the shoulder area. (I guess the best beef comes from the shoulder and neck??)
If the gov't shuts down, we are all going to end up poor and scared because NOTHING will happen. (If the gov't doesn't do it, you people are stupid enough not to do it for yourselves)
A seed corn company ad says "Plant our seed, because you get all of our support from start to finish". (You can't do it yourself, so we will do it for you....)

Scare tactics work on the uneducated, uninformed, and the just too lazy to care people of the world.  The problem is, BOTH sides suffer from this dilemma and so if one will not educate and inform, who's fault is it?


(As a side note - How many of you own north face clothing?  How many of you knew they are big supporters of the humane society and peta?  Is that where you want your money to go?)
 

comercialfarmer

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-XBAR- said:
Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices.

Most people actually want a safe product at a good price.  It is fear tactics that have people believing something may be wrong with our meat sources.  It is your lack of education, not most producers, that tries to perpetuate this.  Ever hear of something called the FDA?  Millions of dollars are spent testing any and every medication or synthetic supplement prior to its authorized use.  I understand you know little about scientific method and discovery, but you should do a little research first.  There are set withdraw periods for a reason, and they are very generous.  Animals have naturally occurring levels of hormones, that very with the estrus cycle.  Proteins are denatured with heat.  And by the time you figure in dilution, even at traceable levels of substances, it would be a non issue. 

Ignorance is no excuse to post BS.
 

RyanChandler

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commercialfarmer said:
-XBAR- said:
Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices.

Most people actually want a safe product at a good price.  It is fear tactics that have people believing something may be wrong with our meat sources.  It is your lack of education, not most producers, that tries to perpetuate this.  Ever hear of something called the FDA?  Millions of dollars are spent testing any and every medication or synthetic supplement prior to its authorized use.  I understand you know little about scientific method and discovery, but you should do a little research first.  There are set withdraw periods for a reason, and they are very generous.  Animals have naturally occurring levels of hormones, that very with the estrus cycle.  Proteins are denatured with heat.  And by the time you figure in dilution, even at traceable levels of substances, it would be a non issue. 

Ignorance is no excuse to post BS.
While I imagine my life would be substantially less troublesome if I were to live it with the BLIND FAITH you so adamantly express here - your naivety of how shit really happens in the public sector hinders your ability to conceptualize.  The operative question here is WHO FUNDS THE RESEARCH!!??? Bribes and kickbacks facilitate the approval/ rejection of these products.  Don't think for a second they don't. 

And, true, there are some hormones that are naturally occurring in cattle- - Unfortunately for your arguments, tren, zeranol, and the types aren't some of them. 
 

knabe

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women have ovaries and men have testes.

these need to be removed as hormones are not natural at any concentration.

the world will be a happier place.
 

BTDT

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commercialfarmer said:
-XBAR- said:
Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices.

Most people actually want a safe product at a good price.  It is fear tactics that have people believing something may be wrong with our meat sources.  It is your lack of education, not most producers, that tries to perpetuate this.  Ever hear of something called the FDA?  Millions of dollars are spent testing any and every medication or synthetic supplement prior to its authorized use.  I understand you know little about scientific method and discovery, but you should do a little research first.  There are set withdraw periods for a reason, and they are very generous.  Animals have naturally occurring levels of hormones, that very with the estrus cycle.  Proteins are denatured with heat.  And by the time you figure in dilution, even at traceable levels of substances, it would be a non issue. 

Ignorance is no excuse to post BS.

I have actually heard of the FDA. I also know who profits and funds most of "research" that is done. And while I am no conspiracy pirate, I am also smart enough to realize that many things that were once "FDA approved" are now no longer safe or have had modifications to their label.
Tylonal now has a new warning, and it was FDA approved. Agent Orange was FDA approved and it is now BANNED. Pseudophede (pardon the spelling) was once "safe" and now is regulated.  Clariton was once a prescription only, and now it is over the counter, Prilosec was once a prescription only and now is over the counter.

There are many more examples of where the FDA has reversed its opinion, so just because "they" say it is safe, does not mean I am going to put blind faith in them.

Have you considered why the food pyramid has changed? It was changed not because of diets being more healthy, but because of lobbyist from special interest groups pushed to get their "products" accepted and a larger piece of the pie. Don't believe me? Research it yourself. Same for the "healthy kids act" here in the fine state of Iowa. There was HUGE debate/discussion over what should be included and every single commodity was represented trying to get "their product" on the list. "Sparking water/juice" was not on the original list, then BAM, it was included after it was deemed "healthy and acceptable".  Again, look at the history and see for yourself. Call up the dept of ed and ask them how they came up with what a healthy meal was for teens.


Ignorance is no excuse, but neither is being too lazy to think for yourself.  (With the gov't shut down, how ARE you surviving?)



 

comercialfarmer

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BTDT said:
commercialfarmer said:
-XBAR- said:
Charguy said:
So let me dissect for you why I believe this marketing campaign is shameful. A&W claims their beef is added hormone free, ethically and sustainably raised.  This makes it better beef. I take exception to this message because it implies “conventional beef” is bad, capitalizing on people’s lack of knowledge of food production and spreading fear about our food, and promoting misinformation.

It doesn't imply conventional beef is bad; only that it is not as good as added-hormone free.  The fact of the matter is that while the risk these synthetics impose on the consumer may be minimal, for those that aren't price sensitive to food, you cannot put a price on safety.  If given the choice between unadulterated vs. conventional, if it weren't for the price difference,  ALL consumers would prefer the unadulterated.  The rancher, regardless of his devotion/love for his cattle- regardless of his husbandry skills- has VERY little knowledge of the synthetics used or, most importantly, the long term risk (if any) of subscribing to those practices.

Most people actually want a safe product at a good price.  It is fear tactics that have people believing something may be wrong with our meat sources.  It is your lack of education, not most producers, that tries to perpetuate this.  Ever hear of something called the FDA?  Millions of dollars are spent testing any and every medication or synthetic supplement prior to its authorized use.  I understand you know little about scientific method and discovery, but you should do a little research first.  There are set withdraw periods for a reason, and they are very generous.  Animals have naturally occurring levels of hormones, that very with the estrus cycle.  Proteins are denatured with heat.  And by the time you figure in dilution, even at traceable levels of substances, it would be a non issue. 

Ignorance is no excuse to post BS.

I have actually heard of the FDA. I also know who profits and funds most of "research" that is done. And while I am no conspiracy pirate, I am also smart enough to realize that many things that were once "FDA approved" are now no longer safe or have had modifications to their label.
Tylonal now has a new warning, and it was FDA approved. Agent Orange was FDA approved and it is now BANNED. Pseudophede (pardon the spelling) was once "safe" and now is regulated.  Clariton was once a prescription only, and now it is over the counter, Prilosec was once a prescription only and now is over the counter.

There are many more examples of where the FDA has reversed its opinion, so just because "they" say it is safe, does not mean I am going to put blind faith in them.

Have you considered why the food pyramid has changed? It was changed not because of diets being more healthy, but because of lobbyist from special interest groups pushed to get their "products" accepted and a larger piece of the pie. Don't believe me? Research it yourself. Same for the "healthy kids act" here in the fine state of Iowa. There was HUGE debate/discussion over what should be included and every single commodity was represented trying to get "their product" on the list. "Sparking water/juice" was not on the original list, then BAM, it was included after it was deemed "healthy and acceptable".  Again, look at the history and see for yourself. Call up the dept of ed and ask them how they came up with what a healthy meal was for teens.


Ignorance is no excuse, but neither is being too lazy to think for yourself.  (With the gov't shut down, how ARE you surviving?)

Oh, I'm perfectly fine with the shut down. 

Yes, our government is out of whack.  The answer is less central government not more.  All sections should be accountable, unlike the EPA.  And more government should be handled at the state level. 

My point is not that the FDA will save the world (We are only 1 country of many that approve drug usage, we have the harshest approval, still.  Which is definitely something), but that the studies have to be performed.  Not only are they evaluated by the government, they are evaluated by peers.  It is this peer review that is priceless and a lot of BS is sorted out.  We have the safest food source in the world.  So now you have advertisers that are attacking "created" and buzz word issues.  Look at how many copies of "Eating for your blood type" was sold.  :eek:

As long as government does not control medicine, you have checks and balances.  If illness or side effects occur, medical case studies can and will identify links if not altered by governmental influence. 

Medications have had label changes after being on the market, but this is overall rare, and in cases it does occur, you need to understand why. 

Psuedoephedrine is because of the abuse that was occurring with making meth.  Last I checked, it didn't cause you to make meth, but people already making meth were abusing the availability of it.  Now most of it just comes across the border from Mexico.  Job outsourcing. 

Tylenol is because of other medications having NSAIDs in them as well and people abusing tylenol.  If people followed the label directions, there would be no need to change the label.  But they don't.  It is just tylenol, right?  You should read into that and find that information out for yourself. 

Clariton and prilosec have been demonstrated to have safetly levels appropriate for lay people to make medical decisions regarding their use when taken by label.  That just demonstrates that the safety measures in place originally were more than ample. 



I have a couple questions for you anti-antibiotic and hormone fellas... Do you use anti-parasitics on your cattle?  Is your meat processing facilities cleaned with disinfectants?    Shame, shame, shame!  Plus, your a fool for buying into all the hype. 
 

GM

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
248
Location
Indiana
I understand why there are a lot of emotions around this topic and how it can be interpreted.  Although, I didn't interpret this as a slight to beef.  They're trying to differentiate a commodity similar to what you see from restaurants who promote their use of Certified Angus Beef.  I don't think the non-angus breeders on this thread are boycotting Arby's, McDonalds, Hardee's, etc. because those establishments must be implying that non CAB is bad?  It could be very possible that natural, hormone free, organic and/or grass-fed could be the next CAB.  It could also increase the demand for beef.  The only way it will work is if the premium they charge and new business it generates will offset the increased expenses.  If it's not profitable it will go away or be phased out...similar to how some fast food chains have pushed chicken more in their marketing when beef prices increase.  The bigger fear should be natural/hormone free/organic chicken.  Also, kudos to Spring Creek in Vegreville, Alberta; Meyer in Helmsville, Montana; and Teys in Australia for selling more beef.
 
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