All Black %Sim bull

[Sparty-On]

I know there are a few of you that are pretty dialed in with Simmy bulls.  Looking for recommendations on an all-black, %sim bull that will add some power and body.  Not worried about front end...looking for a cow maker!  Thanks.

 

[b_kackley]

I know you specified % Sim. What about purebreds? I have had good luck with NLC Upgrade and Grandmaster for cow makers.

 

[RyanChandler]

Yea that's bizarre to want to mongrelize the cow base.    Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray.  Better approach is to create as close to F1 momma cow as you can, or even backcross with your cow base (baldies bred back Hereford or Angus, for example,) and then if you must, use these mongrel bulls as terminal sires back over that cow base.  Consistency and predictability will suffer with the resulting offspring but this approach should shake the bottle up enough to get you a few extreme outliers out of the deal that you can put a halter on. 

 

[Franke]

United, Executive order, wide range, nightride, Black Hawk are just a few.

 

[Gargan]

Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray. 

What if they aren't crossbreds? You know what happens sometimes when you assume don't you?

 

[aj]

ABS is sporting a black % bull. He's sired by the angus bull Hoover Dam. They claim he is the industry best in the industry. I can't remember the name.

 

[Gargan]

ABS is sporting a black % bull. He's sired by the angus bull Hoover Dam. They claim he is the industry best in the industry. I can't remember the name.

Boulder
https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/beef/bull/detail/2033658/breed/14/proof/6/country/222

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray. 

What if they aren't crossbreds? You know what happens sometimes when you assume don't you?///// Are Hereford and Angus xs mutts too?  WE ALL KNOW ANGUS GOT MIXED UP WITH VARIOUS CATTLE in the hunt for larger frames-So did Shorthorns, so did ALOT of breeds (like HEREFORDS)-The genes are still there O0

 

[RyanChandler]

Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray. 

What if they aren't crossbreds? You know what happens sometimes when you assume don't you?

Hey smart ass, if the cows aren’t crossbreds, even more reason to want to use a purebred bull of an unrelated breed in order to create genuine f1s. 

 

[RyanChandler]

Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray. 

What if they aren't crossbreds? You know what happens sometimes when you assume don't you?///// Are Hereford and Angus xs mutts too?  WE ALL KNOW ANGUS GOT MIXED UP WITH VARIOUS CATTLE in the hunt for larger frames-So did Shorthorns, so did ALOT of breeds (like HEREFORDS)-The genes are still there O0

Surely you’re not suggesting that there’s the same level of genotypical variation in, say a 98% Angus cow that’s been stabilized at that percentage for 20 generations, as there is in a modern mongrel that has been bred back and forth to random percentage cattle for the last five generations?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Where did the new Angus breeding come from to level the playing field ?  And when you have bulls like Upgrade who are considered purebred how is he any less a generational mish mash than alot of the Angus and or the Angus that made Simmentals black? O0

 

[Gargan]

Assuming you have some crossbred cows now,  coming back over them with an unrelated crossbred bull results in progeny whose genetics are in utter disarray. 

What if they aren't crossbreds? You know what happens sometimes when you assume don't you?

Hey smart ass, if the cows aren’t crossbreds, even more reason to want to use a purebred bull of an unrelated breed in order to create genuine f1s.

I guess a smart ass is better than a dumbass,  but anyway,  once again, you made no reference to the original posters questions. If he's wanting to make sim solution show animals on purebred cows, then a purebred bull is not what he/she needs. Not everyone wants to maximize hybrid vigor and be the rhinestone cowboy you are, tex,! Btw, which one are you in this pic, and has this pic been photoshopped?

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

I'll add No Remorse to Frankes suggestions.

 

[Gargan]

I'll add No Remorse to Frankes suggestions.

Good one, and fhen halftime came to mind also (thumbsup)

 

[Sparty-On]

Thanks for all the good feedback and suggestions!  Well...most of you!  SimSolution...most everyone understood.

 

[aj]

The hybrid deal is a interesting topic. I do know that some big name purebred people have added composite bulls to their catalog. Even Wedel red angus in my part of the universe.

 

[RyanChandler]

simsolution  (lol)  Talk about participation trophy generation.  Is this like some little designation they've come up with so that all of you little freddy 4-H'ers have a place to fit in? Mercy, anything to make a buck I guess

I thought the Op's question was about cowmakers.  Sorry for interrupting, I'll let y'all get back to brushing your ponies now-

 

[aj]

When I was a college judging team guy in 1980 we used to debate each other.........on the bus......in route to contest. I remember one argument that I made. If you take a cow....that has nothing but frame 5 cattle in her pedigree......a Herford cow-and you breed her to an Angus bullthat has nothing but frame 5 in his pedigree....will most likely get a frame 5 calve almost always. The calves would be consistently 5 frames even if they are crossbred calves. On the other hand if you take a Angus cow of a frame 5 and breed her to an Angus bull who is a frame 9........you will get a crazy array of frame scores......from 5 to 9. So in this case you have better consistentcy in the crossbred calves over the "purebred calves".

 

[aj]

The heterosis factor in breeding plans is completely a different deal though.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Since Simm Solutions are created with purebreds both sides as are: most Durham Reds,Optimizers etc etc-What makes them so different in outcomes than "so-called' purebreds that actually are not. I havent seen many commercial herds where every calf was semi identical or purebreds for that matter. The only feedlots Ive seen up close were Iowa-and they were all holstiens because they are uniform-and basically the same gene pool-(certified Angus Beef) Like it or not the most uniform groupings of purebred cattle Ive seen are also in Iowa at Sullivans :and once he gets rid of all the high BW embryo heifers, they may be more so- O0