ancient history chi's

[knabe]

saw this rummaging around

http://www.spcnetwork.com/mii/1998/980679.htm

what ever became of that.  i assume he lost as the bull on the chi web page isn't white with a black nose.  when i was in college (mid 80's), fullbloods were still around.  also noticed there is no fullblood show anymore, yet chi blood is popular as ever.

found this site

http://www.greatdivideadventure.com/chiangus/index.htm  and noticed a couple bulls have EXT in them as well as some tenderness genes.

also looked at http://www.greatdivideadventure.com/chiangus/pref_Beef_Empire_Champ.htm  are some steers at shows just too fat and are they placed appropriately?

also note comments at the bottom of
http://www.greatdivideadventure.com/chiangus/pref_breedcompare.htm

 

[red]

Very interesting Knabe! it does seem that the Chi's are the one breed that still doesn't embrace it's fullblood roots. Imagine if a fullblood Chi came to a show. It would definitely stand out from it's black, hairy, smaller framed relatives.

Red

 

[Jill]

If it is anything like the Chi's I rememberI have no desire to be anywhere near a show ring they are in, they were WILD!

I think the Chi's are pretty much a joke anymore, they accept such a low %, they really in my mind aren't Chi's they are crossbreds.  I guess my opinion would be, if there are still fullbloods out there the name needs to remain as is, with the different divisions like they are.

 

[garybob]

Why, then, don't you guys advocate Fullblood, Astersk-free Shorthorns returning the breed back to their Commercially-oriented rooots? Wymore "Yes", Gringo "No", is what I say. i know you guys enjoy your family time at shows, but, there has to be a point at which we must look at long-term stability, and not short-term gain. Clubby Shorthorns can't even mother a marketable calf, withiut the aid of a Silo and a Creep Feeder. i know, because I had a Double-VisionXSteerMaker cow.

Hope I'm not offending anyone.

 

[Joe Boy]

I think there is a place for Fullbloods of all breeds of cattle.  Most breeds are crossbreeds of some kind, even the old Maines, Angus, Shorthorns....

Yet, for generations they were stable with their genetics.  Today, we have crossed everything just about.  Most are trying to have black cattle... even Lemis and Charlotte have gotten into the black market....

I am not against a breed bringing in some genetics to help improve in an area as long as other things are not compromised.  Many of the changes we have had or only for show purposes.  Maternal benefits cannot be sacrificed, nor can disposition.  Some Chi crosses are real snots, and so are some blood lines of Lemis, and other breeds. 

I helped a neighbor put in her longhorns and would personally never have one but she loves them.  So, I guess each person has the right to raise what they choose as long as it is call the USA..... what I like, I have not the right to force on you.....  I like black Maines, and I want them with meat on them and easy to put on the finish.  I want them born small enough for the cow to not need my assistance, but will grow really fast.  I want my mothers to be easy calvers that milk and take care of their babies......

 

[OH Breeder]

Why, then, don't you guys advocate Fullblood, Astersk-free Shorthorns returning the breed back to their Commercially-oriented rooots? Wymore "Yes", Gringo "No", is what I say. i know you guys enjoy your family time at shows, but, there has to be a point at which we must look at long-term stability, and not short-term gain. Clubby Shorthorns can't even mother a marketable calf, withiut the aid of a Silo and a Creep Feeder. i know, because I had a Double-VisionXSteerMaker cow.

Hope I'm not offending anyone.

Wymore Sabre?

 

[cowz]

Why, then, don't you guys advocate Fullblood, Astersk-free Shorthorns returning the breed back to their Commercially-oriented rooots? Wymore "Yes", Gringo "No", is what I say. i know you guys enjoy your family time at shows, but, there has to be a point at which we must look at long-term stability, and not short-term gain. Clubby Shorthorns can't even mother a marketable calf, withiut the aid of a Silo and a Creep Feeder. i know, because I had a Double-VisionXSteerMaker cow.

Hope I'm not offending anyone.

Actually, I whole heartedly agree with you.  Our regional shorthorn association no longer allows appendix cattle in our shows, which includes the state fair.  No special classes for appendix either.  Made the jocks who only peddle show calves quite upset because the local kids cant show in the field day, big regional jackpot or state fair.  Last year when my son inquired on a heifer he admired, the guy told him....What birthdate do you want?.....(and there are different ways we can handle the papers, he said!).....this gave us a cold chill up the spine and we ran as fast as our stubby little legs could carry us!!!!    From that day forward we vowed as a family to only purchase fullblood shorthorn (TH Free) genetics from folks that have been in the breed for the long run and never ever look at an appendix.

In the appendix world, this only leaves the AOB classes.  Truthfully, I think the folks who have stuck out the rough times in the Shorthorn world are committed to trying to go back to a fullblood scenario.  It's time to make these cattle functional again.!!!  Just my 2 cents worth.  Now Im the one who hopes I havent offended anyone.  My opinion only.

 

[red]

Now in Ohio, they're going the opposite way. Making classes for all the lower % breeds. Maines, Simmi's, Horns & such. Angus & Herefords about the only ones that don't do that.

Red

 

[Showcalves]

Long story short on the Walter G. Mize article......the association and the Mize Ranch came to an agreement out of court.  Name stays American Chianina Association and the Mize Ranch got a bunch of free publicity in the breed mag.  Unbelieveably, it was a very heated discussion at the time within the breed.  I know for us it really didn't matter, but we now register more Chimaines than anything else.  Have run the gammet over the years (Fullbloods, Chiangus, Chimaine).  We do have some issues with the breed association as far as the % needed for registration and such.  Not sure where it's going at this time.  We like the style a little bit of chi will add to a calf.  The fullbloods we had didn't milk enough to raise a mouse, but that just could've been the ones we had.

BSC

 

[knabe]

some of the comments are totally funny

"The fullbloods we had didn't milk enough to raise a mouse"
" Clubby Shorthorns can't even mother a marketable calf, withiut the aid of a Silo and a Creep Feeder"

back in the 80's, it was easy to pick out an Ildeno head and butt anywhere, if you saw enough of them.  they also tended to have a mole on one cheek.  back then, some people had Amerifax cows and bred to ildeno to combine the milk and growth.  It seemed strange to see black angus looking cattle with small dairy udders.  obvious who one of those was who happened to import Dividend, some other famous bull, and friesian semen.  it seems like what he has now is angus with the same show calf potential.  interesting that he also was involved generating a lot of individuals used in kit pharo's type cattle.  he tries a lot of things and is willing to experiment and think outside of the box and has been rewarded for it.  by the way, the red friesians have similar markings to maine fullbloods.  i appreciated the comments from joe boy regarding cattle breeds are essentially stable genetics, also called a land race if isolated enough and long enough.  i just hope people can get over that color need not be linked to anything.  the carcass quality genes are in every breed, just at different frequency.  it would be sad if we bred out all the diversity for ecotypes and only breed to feed.

 

[Joe Boy]

One Chi/Angus bull that we liked was Sugar Ray.  We did not like the disposition and sold more heifers than we kept.  He has a big mark on our herd.  You can spot his offspring by their heads, but my Maine bulls have bred that out of them.  I have been drug over fences and had them in the tractor seat with me and took them to the local auction due to insubordination....  but the ones that we handled have really been great and we now have 3 13 year olds...and lots of offspring from Maines.  The Chi cross has a head that no one can deny..... It is a little like the shape of a wet rat or mouse...long....  Some of the cattle we have still have a little too much leg under them from the Chi and the original Maine bull.  We do not have to pull calves from the leggy cows....

 

[garybob]

As long as you don't have to "feed" in order to "breed". Fertility while facing a multitude of environmental challenge used to be the hallmark of Shorthorn brood cows. still is in the Southern Hemisphere and Canada, but not here, at least anymore. Why? Do dead, wrong-side-out calves appeal to you guys? If the commercial cow-calf guy is afraid of color, can you imagine what a TH-positive or PHA-blimp calf will do to the marketability of Yearling Bulls?

 

[OH Breeder]

As long as you don't have to "feed" in order to "breed". Fertility while facing a multitude of environmental challenge used to be the hallmark of Shorthorn brood cows. still is in the Southern Hemisphere and Canada, but not here, at least anymore. Why? Do dead, wrong-side-out calves appeal to you guys? If the commercial cow-calf guy is afraid of color, can you imagine what a TH-positive or PHA-blimp calf will do to the marketability of Yearling Bulls?

What do you mean GB...."Why? Do dead, wrong-side-out calves appeal to you guys?"  ???
I am missing the point on that one. :-\

 

[garybob]

The fact that all these people KNOW which of the popular AI sires are carriers, and these cow-killers are still being used. The offspring ID'd as carriers are taken to the weekly feeder auction. Let's say, por ejemplo, that during the stocker phase on that good, Oklahoma Wheat Pasture, some of these girls get knocked up, and are showing bred by the time the truck comes to take them up to Garden City to the Feedlot, so they get taken to the sale again and are sold to a cow-calf guy, who uses Maine-influence bulls, and ahs a Heat-Seeker Grandson.

Get the picture? I think there are some great people involved with the show stock industry. I just feel that A great many of these people are taking unnnecessary chances.

 

[OH Breeder]

The fact that all these people KNOW which of the popular AI sires are carriers, and these cow-killers are still being used. The offspring ID'd as carriers are taken to the weekly feeder auction. Let's say, por ejemplo, that during the stocker phase on that good, Oklahoma Wheat Pasture, some of these girls get knocked up, and are showing bred by the time the truck comes to take them up to Garden City to the Feedlot, so they get taken to the sale again and are sold to a cow-calf guy, who uses Maine-influence bulls, and ahs a Heat-Seeker Grandson.

Get the picture? I think there are some great people involved with the show stock industry. I just feel that A great many of these people are taking unnnecessary chances.

I got ya. I haven't used any carriers. I am lucky to not have any carriers to date in my herd. But, I got what you mean now. I hear it all the time in the club industry. I heard a fella today say he was flushing his cow to Heat Wave and I know that she is a carrier. That is scarey. How many of those eggs will be TH? But, someone will buy them. Krazy...

 

[red]

OH B, you bring up a good point about flushes. I'm seeing more tests results on sale cattle but never on the donor cow/bull of a flush. Know there are several carrier cows out there that are big time donors. They've even been bred back in some cases to carrier bulls.
Thought/comments?

Red