and the answer is....

[DL]

Well I know it is hard to believe that some people think I am neither mild mannered nor calm but they do - I see myself as Clark Kent without a phone booth, no tights, and of course not a guy BUT..with all the hub bub on different channels .I thought it might be good to have a contest ....get one right and Jason gives you a fine prize; get them all right and you get a week at the fabulous SP resort with babe aka fred aka steericon as your host...don't get any right but read the answers - you learn a little and ain't that always a good thing??

The question is...[size=10pt]Can you Name the Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals?[/size]
there are 12 drugs or classes of drugs

bonus points - if you know why

more bonus points if you can define extra label drug use (ELDU)

farmboy - NO GOOGLING!!!

 

[red]

1. Clenbuterol
2. DES

I'll let others play too

 

[DL]

She is HOT boys - better get your neurons in gear!

 

[red]

3. Sulfa in lactating dairy cattle

 

[austin]

4. Nitrofurans
5. Nitroimidazoles


the two nitros

 

[Cowboy]

I can add in these 2 for sure --

6 - Acepromazine
7 - Estradial Cyprinate (ECP) and derivitives

Oh -- and as I recall recently

8 - DMSO (DL -- the ag stores called Orcheln's "STILL" carry these tubs on the shelf FYI )

Terry

 

[austin]

I don't know if i get a bonus point but.... ipronidazole, metronidazole, and dimetridazole are included in the Nitroimidazoles category.  ;D

 

[Jill]

Unless I just didn't see it right Sullivans had a container of DMSO at the Jr. show, it is really not allowed??

 

[red]

many supply catalogs carry it too Jill. I think it isn't allowed on meat animals. I'm sure DL can explain it better.

I think the reason most of these are prohibited is because they can pass through the meat or milk & have proven to be harmful to humans whether it causes cancer, birth defiects or other illnesses.

 

[Moocow11]

sulfonamides- in lactating dairy cattle is based on a finding by CVM that the extra-label use of these drugs presents a risk to the public health for the purposes of the AMDUCA of 1994.  These extra label uses are capable of causing violative residues of the drugs inmeat and milk

glycopeptide

phenylbutzone(sp)??

furazolidone, nitrofurazone and other nitrofurans

DES

dimetridazole

chloramphenicol

fluoroquinolones

clenbuterol

ipronidazole

and other nitroimidazoles

i think these are them i am not positive but pretty sure.

 

[DL]

WOW!!! Are you guys hot

Here is the official list

Drugs Prohibited for Extralabel Use in Food Animals (Current as of June 2006. Check for updates on the FDA Web site at www.fda.gov/cvm)

    * Chloramphenicol
    * Clenbuterol
    * Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
    * Dimetridazole
    * Ipronidazole
    * Other nitroimidazoles
    * Furazolidone, nitrofurazone, other nitrofurans
    * Sulfonamide drugs in lactating dairy cattle (except approved use of sulfadimethoxine, sulfabromomethazine, and sulfaethoxypyridazine)
    * Fluoroquinolones
    * Glycopeptides (example: vancomycin)
    * Phenybutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older
    * Adamantane and neuraminidase inhibitor classes of drugs that are approved for treating or preventing influenza A are prohibited therapy in chickens, turkeys, and ducks (Effective: June 20, 2006)




NOW HERE IS THE KICKER - TO DEAL WITH JILL'S QUESTION AND COWBOYS DRUG LIST

Any extralabel drug use (ie if it isn't labeled for cattle it is extralabel, if it is labeled for cattle but you change the route, dose duration, etc it is extralabel) aka ELDU

ELDU requires
REQUIREMENTS FOR USE

    * ELDU is permitted only by or under the supervision of a veterinarian.
    * ELDU is allowed only for FDA approved animal and human drugs.
    * A valid Veterinarian/Client/Patient Relationship is a prerequisite for all ELDU.
    * ELDU for therapeutic purposes only (animal's health is suffering or threatened). Not drugs for production use.
    * Rules apply to dosage form drugs and drugs administered in water. ELDU in feed is prohibited.
    * ELDU is not permitted if it results in a violative food residue, or any residue which may present a risk to public health.
    * FDA prohibition of a specific ELDU precludes such use.

SO this is where things get sticky.the proverbial sticky wicket.....ace in show cattle is certainly not used for therapeutic purposes (it might be therapeutic for the handler) so it is technically; the same animal undergoing a surgical procedure can be tranquilized with ace and that is OK. A vet leaving a bottle of ace a t a farm is a big NO NO (yeah I know it happens)

DMSO is a drug so technically it's use is illegal in cattle - besides the fact that it is a solvent and makes everything smell bad.

Some things are not clear cut but the list above (ie forbidden to use extra label) is clear cut and is punishable (and has been) by jail time. Also compounding from bulk drug is illegal in food animals.

Chloramphenicol causes potentially fatal aplastic anemia in humans - hence its presence; with the fluroquinolones I believe they are worried about over use and antibiotic resistance (ie Baytril); generally though it is the worry about bad things in the meat causing problems for the meat eater. Let me know if this makes sense or if you have questions - I believe moocow11 did a darn fine job - but I'll have to review  the ballots to check for hanging chads!

 

[DL]

Since this is pretty confusing, and becoming more and more important I thought I'd give a couple of examples using planet members and their fictitious animals

Red and the bull with squishy testicles ( an American fable)
Red has a very famous hot ticket show bull who has won everything - she has sold billions of units of semen on him (she calls him Sir), but unfortunately Sir has a personal problem - everytime he is collected he is either shooting blanks or dead sperm - Red is beside herself - the semen buyers are calling at all hours disturbing her beauty rest - shat is Red to do?

Red's vet - Dr Green - examines Sir and decides he has a bad infection of the testicles (called orchitis - don't ask me who calls bull balls orchids) - there are no approved drugs to treat orchitis in bulls. What is Dr Green to do?

Fortunately the FDA in it's infinite wisdom has created ELDU - so following the law Dr Green finds an appropriate antibiotic (Wondercillin) for Sir, he determines the withdrawal time based on science, he writes it all on the label  and follows all the rules. Sir gets better, semen goes world wide, little Sirs spring up everywhere  and Red retires to reign over the planet in recumbent splendor.

Now - if Red had a bottle of Wondercillin and gives it to Sir without following the ELDU she is technically breaking the law. This would become an issue esp if Sir was sent to slaughter (could save those little nuggets) and he sent the Wondercillin meter off the charts.

Now imagine Dr Green is really Dr Creep and he tells Red to give Baytril - did he break the law? YUP, there is no extralabel use of Baytril - Red would probably be in the clear if she was following written orders from her vet.

So in essence Dr Green can treat Red's bull with any human or animal drug - used extralabel (since there are no drugs labeled for his condition) as long as ELDU and AMDUCA are followed. Confused , yeah, we all are - but common sense, ethics, and a little knowledge will go a long way.

That's all for tonight but stay tuned - next we may have Jill's lame calf, knabes joint infection (not his joint) or shortdawgs cows metritis, or maybe OH B calf with a broken leg.....

 

[OH Breeder]

DMSO
what is it and what does it do? Or should I say what does it enhance?

 

[red]

Poor Red & her squishy balled bull!

DL- I love your idea of more information on diseases/conditions. I'd like to suggest a disease/condition of the month. Maybe you could make Johnes the first topic?

Red (no squishy balls here!)

 

[Show Heifer]

Like the idea Red....
But to DL, you mentioned if Dr. Green told Red to give the bull Baytril that would be illegal. Is that because he TOLD her to do it without looking at the bull, or is Bayril absolutely banned from food animal use?

Also, if I remember right, DMSO is a cancer causing agent. It is a carrier product that absorbs into the skin and carries anything that is mixed with it, straight into the body.  Am I close DL??

 

[DL]

Like the idea Red....
But to DL, you mentioned if Dr. Green told Red to give the bull Baytril that would be illegal. Is that because he TOLD her to do it without looking at the bull, or is Bayril absolutely banned from food animal use?

Also, if I remember right, DMSO is a cancer causing agent. It is a carrier product that absorbs into the skin and carries anything that is mixed with it, straight into the body.  Am I close DL??

OH B- you will have to wait for Jill lame calf to find out about DMSO....SH - re Baytril - it is a fluoroquinolone and extra label use is frobidden by law - it is labeled for pneumonia in calves only so to use it for squishy balls (not labeled for squishy balls) is verboten! If the bull with the squishy balls had pneumonia and not squishy ball s then you could uuse Baytril assuming you follwoed withdrawal - more later - same station....stay tuned for Jill and the lame calf ......

 

[DL]

Jill and Herb the lame show steer (an American fable, part 2, these are all virtual people and virtual creatures in a virtual world with no resemblance to reality)
Jill has a show steer - Herb-  and he is lame - in fact he has a big fat hot swollen hock and he is to show at fair (terminal show) in 2 weeks! Oh no, what is Jill to do? What drugs can she legally give Herb to help him with his problem and preserve the integrity of the food supply?

Jill gets on line and some yahoo tells her to use DMSO on her steer hock - should she do it?
Well here is the story - DMSO (despite being an organic solvent and smelling like garlic) is classified as a drug and as a drug (which is not labeled for use in food animals) it is subject to all the ELDU rules and regs. So if Jill followed the yahoos advice she would be technically violating the law.

Now lets say she calls her vet Dr Brown who examines the steer and decides he has a strained hock -that it is not infected but inflammed - he could in theory prescribe DMSO for the steer BUT he has to have a slaughter withhold time based on some science and he doesn't think this has been studied in ruminants - Dr Brown believes that since DMSO is an organic solvent he can't determine a withdrawal time that is appropriate - certainly 2 weeks isn't sufficient . So what are the other options? Well there is always flunixin meglamine (AKA Banamine) which is approved for use in beef cattle, but not this specific use so it could be used ELDU and has a slaughter with hold of 4 days - but only if given IV - it is much longer if given in the muscle or under the skin. Now Herb is a bit of a pill when it comes to having his neck messed with and there is only a grooming chute - so can Dr Brown give Herb Banamine in the muscle -  - this again is where it gets sticky and 2 weeks slaughter with hold is a little short and banamine residue is becoming a bigger and bigger problem (and you don't want that residue carcass traced back to you)...so what will happen to poor Herb - aspirin is OK and has no slaughter withhold - it is a good cheap and safe anti inflammatory, coupled with a little hydrotherapy the hock goes down dramatically, Herb becomes sound and becomes the Gr Champion steer at the fair - every drug known to man is tested for and Herb is clean as a whistle. Dr Brown recommends that if Jill lets her steers play basketball before fair they wear high top sneakers to protect those joints!

 

[shorthorns r us]

Jill and Herb the lame show steer (an American fable, part 2, these are all virtual people and virtual creatures in a virtual world with no resemblance to reality)
Jill has a show steer - Herb-  and he is lame - in fact he has a big fat hot swollen hock and he is to show at fair (terminal show) in 2 weeks! Oh no, what is Jill to do? What drugs can she legally give Herb to help him with his problem and preserve the integrity of the food supply?

Jill gets on line and some yahoo tells her to use DMSO on her steer hock - should she do it?
Well here is the story - DMSO (despite being an organic solvent and smelling like garlic) is classified as a drug and as a drug (which is not labeled for use in food animals) it is subject to all the ELDU rules and regs. So if Jill followed the yahoos advice she would be technically violating the law.

Now lets say she calls her vet Dr Brown who examines the steer and decides he has a strained hock -that it is not infected but inflammed - he could in theory prescribe DMSO for the steer BUT he has to have a slaughter withhold time based on some science and he doesn't think this has been studied in ruminants - Dr Brown believes that since DMSO is an organic solvent he can't determine a withdrawal time that is appropriate - certainly 2 weeks isn't sufficient . So what are the other options? Well there is always flunixin meglamine (AKA Banamine) which is approved for use in beef cattle, but not this specific use so it could be used ELDU and has a slaughter with hold of 4 days - but only if given IV - it is much longer if given in the muscle or under the skin. Now Herb is a bit of a pill when it comes to having his neck messed with and there is only a grooming chute - so can Dr Brown give Herb Banamine in the muscle -  - this again is where it gets sticky and 2 weeks slaughter with hold is a little short and banamine residue is becoming a bigger and bigger problem (and you don't want that residue carcass traced back to you)...so what will happen to poor Herb - aspirin is OK and has no slaughter withhold - it is a good cheap and safe anti inflammatory, coupled with a little hydrotherapy the hock goes down dramatically, Herb becomes sound and becomes the Gr Champion steer at the fair - every drug known to man is tested for and Herb is clean as a whistle. Dr Brown recommends that if Jill lets her steers play basketball before fair they wear high top sneakers to protect those joints!

i don't have an aquaciser.  how do i provide hydrotherapy to my steer.

 

[DL]

SRU - use the DL approach - it is very high tech so I hope I can adequately explain it

One garden hose
Attach to water source
Apply water to the sore, offending, swollen or whatever part - ideally 20 min 2 times per day
Works best on halter broke animals esp if you need to use warm water and tie near the front of the house  ;D
However can be used for almost anything if you can do it in a chute
Difficult to do in freezing weather!

Believe it or not we have cured/helped tons of different conditions with hydrotherapy - mastitis, abscesses, sloughing skin/hide from inadvertent sub q injection, traumas of varous types - and most cows get to where they really like it - people laugh when I tell them to do hydrotherapy - (OK they laugh at me a lot) but now they call and say things like I have this problem do you think hydrotherapy will work? You may consider me the Hydrotherapy queen!

ps If you need help setting it up I do make house calls  (lol) (lol)

 

[OH Breeder]

Like the idea Red....
But to DL, you mentioned if Dr. Green told Red to give the bull Baytril that would be illegal. Is that because he TOLD her to do it without looking at the bull, or is Bayril absolutely banned from food animal use?

Also, if I remember right, DMSO is a cancer causing agent. It is a carrier product that absorbs into the skin and carries anything that is mixed with it, straight into the body.  Am I close DL??

OH B- you will have to wait for Jill lame calf to find out about DMSO....SH - re Baytril - it is a fluoroquinolone and extra label use is frobidden by law - it is labeled for pneumonia in calves only so to use it for squishy balls (not labeled for squishy balls) is verboten! If the bull with the squishy balls had pneumonia and not squishy ball s then you could uuse Baytril assuming you follwoed withdrawal - more later - same station....stay tuned for Jill and the lame calf ......

Okay, now What is DMSO and what does it enhance?? :-\