Any Sneed sale results

[GONEWEST]

I have a really hard time understanding why it is so difficult for people to understand why commercial cattle have to be black in this country.  ??? Its the CAB program. It forever changed the beef industry in America. It is nothing more than a marketing ploy, but it is a brilliant one. We have everyone that sells beef from the supermarket to the fast food places getting a premium for "Angus beef." It matters not if your animals have the highest quality carcass that has ever been raised if they are not black in color, they can't qualify. Period. End of story. The vast majority of people even in rural areas believe "Angus" beef to be the top of the line. You and your sons and their sons will be long gone before you could convince and educate the American consumer that it is simply not true. It's just how it is. This issue was decided many years ago. Too late to cry about it now.

 

[justintime]

I have a really hard time understanding why it is so difficult for people to understand why commercial cattle have to be black in this country.  ??? Its the CAB program. It forever changed the beef industry in America. It is nothing more than a marketing ploy, but it is a brilliant one. We have everyone that sells beef from the supermarket to the fast food places getting a premium for "Angus beef." It matters not if your animals have the highest quality carcass that has ever been raised if they are not black in color, they can't qualify. Period. End of story. The vast majority of people even in rural areas believe "Angus" beef to be the top of the line. You and your sons and their sons will be long gone before you could convince and educate the American consumer that it is simply not true. It's just how it is. This issue was decided many years ago. Too late to cry about it now.

If this is true, then why is it so different here in Canada as we have the CAB program here as well. And if this is so, why do so many American feeders feed so many none black cattle especially in Canadian feedlots and then ship them to the US for slaughter? Why do so many non black feeder cattle from Canada go to the US to be fed?  I could possibly understand your point if all the American owned cattle fed in Canada were killed in Canada but they are not. They ship them to whatever plant offers them the best price and many times that is in the US.  Yes, they do feed a bunch of black cattle here as well, but lots of others as well. One Sunday in February, I had to wait on the US side of the border for a truck to pick up a heifer I sold. I waited for over 3 hours and in that time I watched 28 pots of cattle stop with cattle from one feedlot going to the US for slaughter. I  heard one of the truckers say that they were all owned by one American who was feeding cattle in several Canadian feedlots.Since this has been an issue for me for a long time, I have tried to find some answers. I talked with several of the truckers as they were waiting for their loads to be processed and they said that probably 1/2 half or less of the cattle heading to slaughter where black . I talked with a bunch of feeders at a convention in January about this exact topic, and was told that it seems that  the cattle only have to be black if they are fed in the US. They say the same Americans feeders who also feed  in Canada will feed cattle of any color if they will make money on them, and most of these cattle go to the US to be slaughtered. So explain to me, what the difference is? If it is so essential to be black then why aren't the same rules applied for cattle from both countries when they are slaughtered in the same country. Almost all the big packers in Canada are US owned and they do pay premiums on cattle of all breeds, not just cattle that fit into the CAB program. They then ship a pile of the beef in boxes to the US for consuption.I often wonder how much beef is marketed as Angus beef in many restuarants has no percentage of Angus DNA in it.
The Angus breed is a very popular breed here in Canada as well. however, it is not essential to be only black tyo get top feeder market prices. I am just saying there seems to be two sets of rules for cattle fed in Canada and the US yet much of this beef ends up going to the same packing plants for slaughter and ends up going to the same marketplace. If your point is so true, then why are American owned packers willing to pay premiums based on the qulaity of the carcass . Yes there are CAB premiums here too, but many times none black cattle end up getting much higher premiums than CAB offers. I have no issue with the CAB program offering premiums. I agree that it is a great marketing program, but somethuing doesn't make much sense when the same people are selling to the same packers and there appears to be two sets of rules depending on the address on the bill of lading.

 

[kfacres]

Much of this thread seems to be a quarrel about who is producing the “right-kind” of Shorthorn cattle.  In one corner it is those who believe that they are most profitable by having a herd of 5-frame cows and in the other corner those that don’t.  In my opinion, both may be right.  The ideal cow size will vary according the environment and production system.  

Read this article about cow size and efficiency…it summarizes the issue extremely well.

http://www.beefusa.org/uDocs/2010%20NCBA%20Cow%20Efficiency%20_Final_.pdf

As the article states…it is a bit of puzzle.  A cow-calf producer may select for smaller framed cattle assuming that they are more efficient, but when they go to market their cattle may be discounted because feeder cattle buyers and packers prefer larger framed cattle.  

So in the cow-calf segment, smaller framed cattle may be more profitable, however, it seems that larger framed cattle are more efficient and profitable in feedlots (and are preferred by packers).

don't all posts that regard the word shorthorn?  i always thought this was the standard..  I like argueing, and so I got into shorthorns, where I would be right at home...  argue until face turns blue, and then keep going a little more. 

 

[CAB]

If nothing else I have come to realize that SH PPL are either passinate or just super stubborn. Look @ SH heifer bulls thread, 880 posts and over 76,000 looks. I'm impressed with your dedication to the cattle and your passion to try to see the breed into the future!!

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT... am I the only one that see's what is going on here???  AJ and JIT AGREED ON SOMETHING!!!!!  If they can do that then just maybe the SH breed will make it after all.  (lol)

 

[CAB]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT... am I the only one that see's what is going on here???  AJ and JIT AGREED ON SOMETHING!!!!!  If they can do that then just maybe the SH breed will make it after all.   (lol)

I was being overly cautious. Couldn't tell if AJ was being sarcastic, but have decided to give him the benefit of doubt. Great day!! (clapping) (clapping)

 

[knabe]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT... am I the only one that see's what is going on here???  AJ and JIT AGREED ON SOMETHING!!!!!  If they can do that then just maybe the SH breed will make it after all.   (lol)

shh.  aj bought a cane of timeline.

 

[aj]

Way to go knabe....you just couldn't keep a secret could you.

 

[CAB]

Way to go knabe....you just couldn't keep a secret could you.

I think great choice AJ.

 

[justintime]

actually aj and I probably agree on more topics than we disagree on, but I think we sometimes are arguing what works for us, and in these cases we are both right. I have to be honest, I have probably made  more mistakes over the years than anyone else, but I feel that I should be entitled to do this.I really don't need anyone telling me what I do is wrong. My buyers will determine that, and if they don't like what I am doing, they probably won't be back.  That is why I keep saying do what works for you but allow me the same privelege. In my world there are no bad bloodlines. I prefer some over others so I use them if I think they will work here.I don't touch the ones I don't think will work for me.  I think everyone else should be allowed to make the same choices when they select from the genetic supermarket out there. If someone can produce an animal , regardless of the bloodlines they use, and make a living doing it, more power to them. And in my world, if a couple of guys in alligator boots show up at a sale and get in a pissing match over a heifer or two, well, so what. Its their money and they can spend it wherever they want to. The marketplace is usually right. If I pay too much for an animal, that is my problem and no one elses. I just hope I have learned something from the experience. I have to live or die by my breeding decisions , and everyone else should be entitled to do the same.

 

[aj]

Be passionate and have a sense of humour. Passion for your beliefs and for your fellow man.  ............Damn.........I think I'm a better writer than JIT. I wonder........does the show circuit need a writer? Hmmn

 

[GONEWEST]

Grant,

Is "Angus" beef advertised as nauseum in Canada? Do McDonalds and Burger King and Arbys advertise "Angus" beef continually? Do the supermarkets have special sections in the meat department for "Angus" Beef? Do restaurant chains have a special section of "Angus" beef? I don't recall seeing one there that did. I saw several that advertised "Alberta fed beef". But not "Angus."  Does the Canadian Angus association spend as much in advertising the CAB program as the American Angus Association?

American consumers believe "Angus" beef is worth a premium and that is an indisputable fact. It's the only breed or "brand" that many have ever heard of. The fact they they couldn't tell the difference between a steak from an Angus and a steak from a Charolais, of the same quality grade isn't relevant. All the shorthorn associations in the world combined don't have enough advertising dollars to educate the American consumer and convince him that he has been paying this premium for nothing.

As cattle numbers in the US continue to decline and exports continue to climb I would imagine that premiums would be paid for those Canadian cattle just from demand. All I know is that if I sell red or red and white spotted cattle at the stockyard they will bring less than their black counterparts and it's due to the CAB program that has forever changed the beef industry in the US. Why do you think Simmental cattle are black? Simmental cattle are red and white or yellow and white spotted. It's because you can't sell them if they are spotted. You MIGHT find one customer who would buy your shorthorn colored cattle to feed out, but you will never, ever, ever be able to place as many red and white spotted cattle as the black ones, even if you had the same numbers. Not saying it's how it should be, its just how it is.

I am no expert on the shorthorn breed, but I can think of ONE breeder who by my definition is successful with shorthorns in the US that has a commercial emphasis. Yet there are several that breed "show" type cattle that are very successful. There is a reason for that. Like many things in life, you can jump up and down and kick and stomp and scream that it shouldn't be that way. And then you can beat your head against a concrete block. Same result. All you are going to get is a head ache.

 

[justintime]

Grant,

Is "Angus" beef advertised as nauseum in Canada? Do McDonalds and Burger King and Arbys advertise "Angus" beef continually? Do the supermarkets have special sections in the meat department for "Angus" Beef? Do restaurant chains have a special section of "Angus" beef? I don't recall seeing one there that did. I saw several that advertised "Alberta fed beef". But not "Angus."  Does the Canadian Angus association spend as much in advertising the CAB program as the American Angus Association?

American consumers believe "Angus" beef is worth a premium and that is an indisputable fact. It's the only breed or "brand" that many have ever heard of. The fact they they couldn't tell the difference between a steak from an Angus and a steak from a Charolais, of the same quality grade isn't relevant. All the shorthorn associations in the world combined don't have enough advertising dollars to educate the American consumer and convince him that he has been paying this premium for nothing.

As cattle numbers in the US continue to decline and exports continue to climb I would imagine that premiums would be paid for those Canadian cattle just from demand. All I know is that if I sell red or red and white spotted cattle at the stockyard they will bring less than their black counterparts and it's due to the CAB program that has forever changed the beef industry in the US. Why do you think Simmental cattle are black? Simmental cattle are red and white or yellow and white spotted. It's because you can't sell them if they are spotted. You MIGHT find one customer who would buy your shorthorn colored cattle to feed out, but you will never, ever, ever be able to place as many red and white spotted cattle as the black ones, even if you had the same numbers. Not saying it's how it should be, its just how it is.

I am no expert on the shorthorn breed, but I can think of ONE breeder who by my definition is successful with shorthorns in the US that has a commercial emphasis. Yet there are several that breed "show" type cattle that are very successful. There is a reason for that. Like many things in life, you can jump up and down and kick and stomp and scream that it shouldn't be that way. And then you can beat your head against a concrete block. Same result. All you are going to get is a head ache.




[/quotestion.

I agree 100% with you, and yes we get the same Angus promotion up here as you do and McDonalds promote Angus beef. It is the most successful marketing promotion I can think of. When I see a restuarant or store promoting Angus beef I always ask for proof that it is Angus. Usually they can't prove it and I can only remember two cases where they told me that steaks were Sterling Silver brand which is a CAB beef brand here in Canada. I am not sure if this is the same in the US or not. I am not talking about the success of the CAB program and I fully understand that it has been a major reason for the success of black hided cattle. The fact that lots and lots of black cattle with little or no Angus blood can qualify as CAB , is a scam in kitself but that is another topic and really has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am talking about a group of the same feeders who buy and feed in the US who are also buying and feeding cattle in Canada and then shipping these cattle to some of the same packers in the US or are killing in Canada and then shipped boxed beef back to the US, are using two seperate sets of rules. If being black hided was essential to the US marketplace, then why does it not matter quite as much for the cattle they feed in Canada? It just seems to me that if non black hided beef can be accepted into the US market from here, then why is there a difference in the US?Thats my quesr

 

[red roan]

Grant,

Is "Angus" beef advertised as nauseum in Canada? Do McDonalds and Burger King and Arbys advertise "Angus" beef continually? Do the supermarkets have special sections in the meat department for "Angus" Beef? Do restaurant chains have a special section of "Angus" beef? I don't recall seeing one there that did. I saw several that advertised "Alberta fed beef". But not "Angus."  Does the Canadian Angus association spend as much in advertising the CAB program as the American Angus Association?

American consumers believe "Angus" beef is worth a premium and that is an indisputable fact. It's the only breed or "brand" that many have ever heard of. The fact they they couldn't tell the difference between a steak from an Angus and a steak from a Charolais, of the same quality grade isn't relevant. All the shorthorn associations in the world combined don't have enough advertising dollars to educate the American consumer and convince him that he has been paying this premium for nothing.

As cattle numbers in the US continue to decline and exports continue to climb I would imagine that premiums would be paid for those Canadian cattle just from demand. All I know is that if I sell red or red and white spotted cattle at the stockyard they will bring less than their black counterparts and it's due to the CAB program that has forever changed the beef industry in the US. Why do you think Simmental cattle are black? Simmental cattle are red and white or yellow and white spotted. It's because you can't sell them if they are spotted. You MIGHT find one customer who would buy your shorthorn colored cattle to feed out, but you will never, ever, ever be able to place as many red and white spotted cattle as the black ones, even if you had the same numbers. Not saying it's how it should be, its just how it is.

I am no expert on the shorthorn breed, but I can think of ONE breeder who by my definition is successful with shorthorns in the US that has a commercial emphasis. Yet there are several that breed "show" type cattle that are very successful. There is a reason for that. Like many things in life, you can jump up and down and kick and stomp and scream that it shouldn't be that way. And then you can beat your head against a concrete block. Same result. All you are going to get is a head ache.

I have often wondered when I am at a restaurant where the have there cab. Advertise just how I could test it to see if it really is or even at super market.I  have a friend that's a packer buyer and he told me when they don't have enough that day they just open the gates.if these could be proving would be a game changer

 

[garybob]

Folks! Quit arguing! Y'uns need to observe one thing:

Either way, Ladies and Gentlemen, some awfully good female-making bulls went out to commercial cattlemen (and a few purebred breeders wanting--needing-- to turn their programs around--no offense to anyone). As an added benefit, the steer offspring will feed and grade. It won't be overnight, but, in about 3 to 5 years those Cattlemen ( and a few darn-smart Ladies, too   ) will come back and buy more at 5 times what they paid on the 24th.

GB

 

[aj]

I always wondered about the industry jumping on a pelvic measurement band wagon? I would think that would bring people around to Shorthorns.