Anyone at Louisville-really want stall pic FROM BEHIND-QUIET MAN

[mark tenenbaum]

The bull show is streaming online via Walton Webcasting right now.

Watched it-Sullivans bull won-beautiful animal but hes been in the hands of pros all his life YA think hes bred any cows?The white bull blew away everything in his class and division basically he was the most massive made bull in the show and looked to outweigh almost everything other than Sullivans and a couple in the 2 year old class and still traveled well The judge commented on that-and he was a stickler for structure and real body mass -not perfect in every respect -but what is needed on hardmade hardoing looking cows or those that need a shot of rib-and bone.Which represents alot of the breed once they get out in the field.Because he is TH he went as far as he could he isnt for everyone-and since they did dna before the bulls left the ring fair enough.-Starmans bull that was reserve and seemed a logical choice-although his pedigree does not indicate any departure from hardoing cattle at ALL-if hes been on feed that long-he just isnt similar in type or doability with the white bull or some of the younger ones which JMO were pretty good too Calves from enny Jordan, Leemons (impressive cant find him on Short search tho).Will on here and Cates Overall I thought he was a good judge-and was concerned with numbers structure-function along with looks :which I agree with. Too bad when he spoke about how these bulls can make an impact or change Shorthorns (and maybe commercial cattle) Id like to hear guesses on how many of them end up available and or useable to the mere mortals that wanna breed thier cows LOL Finally got a picture off my computer screen while he was moving around not very good but a point of reference  O0

 

[oakview]

Did I read that correctly?  The white bull is a TH carrier?  If that's true, I don't want any part of it.  That "trumps" a lot of good qualities, in my humble opinion.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

That was mentioned twice above-Thats fine the thread says hes not for everybody I have several triple clean females that are sired by a th carrier-one goes back on both sides Basically the only person I care about using him is me-If I get a good TH heifer Ill breed her clean The thread never was an endorsement of him as any thing else-I want females that can raise a calf-and I dont like huge birth weights or misrepresentations of performance etc-which trumps my use ( THROUGH EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I SAW ON MY LAST TRIP WEST) of some of the linebred cattle that are popular and trade for alot of money.To each his own O0 O0

 

[RyanChandler]

I think this white bull has a substantially more functional phenotype than the rwm bull pictured. Hard to say how much of that shape is cut like a chia pet and how much is real but if nothing else, a functional appearance.  Noticed his sire was bred by 3BC. They bred a bull called ‘happy days’ last year or so that I thought had a lot of potential. Triple clean.  Think he ended up in Canada. 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I think this white bull has a substantially more functional phenotype than the rwm bull pictured. Hard to say how much of that shape is cut like a chia pet and how much is real but if nothing else, a functional appearance.  Noticed his sire was bred by 3BC. They bred a bull called ‘happy days’ last year or so that I thought had a lot of potential. Triple clean.  Think he ended up in Canada.   

      Pretty much what I thought-Schomberg has never gotten credit due-hes been producing alot of good functional cattle for many years: even Leveldale who are pretty particular have a herd sire from him.-There are a lot of good cows in the bulls pedigree including his dam he was her first calf -and -he really moves well considering hes been fed for show. Its not easy to come up with an almost total outcross which he is at least these days.-There will be something left when he gets out breeding O0 O0 O0

 

[DSCSD]

Did you know Quiet Man is a Bred and Owned bull? 17 year old girl we call Bean raised him. Yea she got some help with him. Buy didn't have a team of "pros". You are right Mark.... in the 15 years SD St fair has done Supreme bull a shorty has never won it.... till this year with Quiet Man. Ugly footed? If your going to pick on the bull your going to have to do better than that Olson. If we are going to pick on something let's bring up the fact that you should have sold a top with that bull Wallace bought ..... did he only have some of the money on the asking price so he only got 2/3s of the bull?

 

[shortyjock89]

Didn't say a thing about his front.

I also never had any claim on the quality of the red/white bull.

I have no significant issue with the bull and told Becking/Polyock in Milwaukee that I think he could be very useful for some of the Shorthorn cattle that need some moderation.

My singular problem with this entire fiasco is that Mr. Tennenbaum states that we got a political favor because we bought a bull from Tyler Cates some years ago which is patently false. It is one thing to not like an animal that I raised/sold, it's quite another to make false accusations.

If Mr. Cates used Wallace's bull because of his pedigree, that is a shame. I would have rather him be beat in that case. I have never hung my hat on success based upon favors or politics and never will.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Little bit of a quandry there-because I think the pedigree hurt the third place bull in Quiet Mans Class or maybe because the other 2 bulls overpowered him in terms of visual mass and or scale (performance?)-The white bull had WDA over everything I saw come in the ring-so I dont know where moderation comes into the picture-hes basically the most extreme soft made sound bull thats come along in years-in some ways you can see the canadian-and leader 21-but never that wide or that massive at least  that Ive seen.-The 3rd place bull could have stood up a notch JMO- Basically politics (or opinions)are not always about someone buying something but they appear in various decisions for various reasons  -we used to win alot of National shows-and we used to hear all kinds of things-For example we were accused of doing a sheath operation on UB Mad Max  which was a joke no none with in 400 miles was capable of that kind of thing-and all the gimmee back my money he wont breed etc  etc went away after they ran him to death in North Dakota-and all those calves started coming-another day another judge-for whatever reason-next come some emails from some fairly prominent simm people re the Simm Louisville junior-open shows? Grow up and get over it-the real world of any business has ups downs and miscues O0

 

[6bshortie]

I am not trying to start anything I just want to put my two cents in. I raised the bull that got third in the class that olson is calling one of the best in the barn. Yes he maybe wasn't as stout as the two in front of me, but Jacks words were " he is the best footed bull that was in the ring, the best angles and design. loved to look at him because of his structure." he was worried on size of his testicles but that was about it didn't say anything about changing his design like he did about the other two bulls. I know our bull will breed we have calves coming in 50 days. If i had more cows he would of covered more but I don't. And for people saying his epds are weak well yes he doesnt have the greatest ones but let me tell you his data that i have collected. bw 85 unassisted stood and was sucking within 20minutes. Weaned off at 750 with some creep not much. Yearling weight was over 1300 and when we showed in Des Monies he was 1700 at Louisville he was 1915, no other bull in that class was above 1770. his epds dont help him no but the numbers it self are not that bad.

 

[TPX]

I am not trying to start anything I just want to put my two cents in. I raised the bull that got third in the class that olson is calling one of the best in the barn. Yes he maybe wasn't as stout as the two in front of me, but Jacks words were " he is the best footed bull that was in the ring, the best angles and design. loved to look at him because of his structure." he was worried on size of his testicles but that was about it didn't say anything about changing his design like he did about the other two bulls. I know our bull will breed we have calves coming in 50 days. If i had more cows he would of covered more but I don't. And for people saying his epds are weak well yes he doesnt have the greatest ones but let me tell you his data that i have collected. bw 85 unassisted stood and was sucking within 20minutes. Weaned off at 750 with some creep not much. Yearling weight was over 1300 and when we showed in Des Monies he was 1700 at Louisville he was 1915, no other bull in that class was above 1770. his epds dont help him no but the numbers it self are not that bad.

I will never understand EPD's in the show ring, just judge the animal in front of you and leave the paper at the announcers table. 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I wasnt at any of the shows I just had to rely on pictures and the show video-if you look back in the thread I commented on the bulls dam who I really like-not so much the epds on him-just his sire-who I am scaired of-and jmo-they are 2 different types-I prefer the white bull for the reasons already stated-if my cattle were all 0 bw etc-Id like to use a bull like yours-and Id use his Proud Jazz son brother pictured if available-not well known but made alot like your bull at least from the side -The white bull appeared to be much bigger-if people want to cry white meat due to the wieght (not you obviously) thats fine-hes like a Canadian bull on steroids (not saying anyone drugged him-just not that type of people) and thats the phenotype I need-ad the cows in his pedigree-that works too.If your bull had larger gonads-he would have won-If the white bull wasnt TH which is hard to figure from the pedigree-he probably would have been reserve in the show-JMO-I think the White bull and your bull would be  more usefull to me by pedigree and general background -than the reserve bull-I also thought the 3 younger bulls mentioned were all good in thier own right-as long as Denny Jordens calf will body down some. O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I would agree about showring EPDS in a breed like Angus where right or wrong the documentation and scrutiny are so comprehensive-Shorthorns are almost becoming extinct in the commercial environment due to a terrible reputation in general which led to an almost complete lack of credibility-which in a small way is part of this discussion, and the breed needs all the help it can get O0

 

[beebe]

Hi Mark.
What is the reputation in the commercial world as you see it?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hi Mark.
What is the reputation in the commercial world as you see it?

. big bws hardoing. Then there’s the cliche that the whole breed is th etc This is based upon what I’ve heard and by what they have said to me. A lot depends upon the location or area of the country clearly shorthorns are used more in Canada than winchester Virginia etc  it’s not about the good cattle in the breed it’s about bad experiences that have been experienced by very few. There is little to no evidence in my area that Shorthorns ever existed and va is the first place they were imported to . But when you get down to the Va show in Harrisonburg-they are some of the thickest cattle there O0

 

[aj]

Whats going on in Louisville?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Whats going on in Louisville?    Ask Knabe  O0 O0

 

[RyanChandler]

Where can we see the best pictures of the top 3 in discussion?

 

[Medium Rare]

Where can we see the best pictures of the top 3 in discussion?

If you go to Walton Webcasting / archives / livestock / NAILE Shorthorn show, then hop to around 4:16:00 you can watch class 51 of the bull show.

 

[peachy]

The breeders of the white bull should be proud! A bull with that much muscle and moves that good are hard to find. Congratulations to the Illinois breeders - looks like they made their presence known at the championship drive!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

(clapping) (clapping) Thank you for a positive response- My thoughts-especially for a young 4H kid to come up with one like that from what really amounts to quite a large percentage of performance cattle in his background--I couldnt find Leemons red bull anywhere-was wondering how hes bred-looked like a tank too for his age O0