Bed and owned division

[aj]

I was reading through a big thick club calf magazine tonight in the tub. I got to wondering......I saw the Sulivan girl won the bred and owned division in the junior show. This almost makes no sense to me. What is the bred and owned division created for.  In the back of mind I'm thinking its designed for the 17 year old junior that doesn't have a 50,000$ heifer given to them each year to show. A 17 year old kid who has 10 females and hammered hard and long at the deal and deserves a little recognition. But instead a little 8 year old girl that daddie has put their name on a pedigree of a corporation heifer wins the damn thing. I guess it ain't wrong or right or really unethical but it seems almost going against the spririt of competion in a deal like this. Its almost cutting the throats of hard working juniors who have hammered long and hard at the deal. I don't really care one way or the other. I don't like what showing cattle has become. But why even go through the motions of the bred and owned deal when people will just manuever around the spirit of the deal. In theory you could have the breeder of a national champion bull at what 4 years old. I wonder what the youngest breeder of a grand champion bull was....just for fun. It just doesn't pass the smell test. Why even do the bred and owned deal?

 

[Doc]

Sully said in an interview that he gave her a couple of cows when she born or something . I understand what you are saying, tho. I have customers that their kids buy calves with the money they earn working jobs and show them and then turn them into their momma cows for bred and owned. It's tuff to compete. But on the other side , playing the devils advocate. Where do you draw the line? Can I put a $2000 cow in my kids name, but not a $20,000 cow? How many of the kids in the owned show own the calf? How many of the calves are owned by their parents? How many are owned by someone else and just in some Jr's name? I'm trying to remember, but when I was a Jr (way back when) wasn't there a rule by the ASA that after the Jr Natl's the calf had to stay in the Jrs' name for like 6 months or something? Once again , life isn't fair . You do your thing and let everybody else do their thing.

 

[cedarcurve]

child capable enough to be interviewed to find out knowledge about their animal. 

Bred-- means bred, not owned the cow on paper. Owned means owned, not owned the cow on paper.

 

[firesweepranch]

For Simmi, the child needs to be the only owner of the cow at the time of conception. My daughter won a good chunk of change winning Bred and Owned last year at Ozark Empire Fair, and she did it with a cow that she showed as a heifer that SHE bought with her own money when the heifer was weaned (2007). SHE AI'd the cow herself, so the resulting winning calf was truly bred and owned. Yeah, some people bend the rules, but that happens anywhere. In our home we know when we win it is in all honesty and no cheating! That is the rules we live by, and my kids know that.  (thumbsup)

 

[simba]

I don't know anything about the Sullivan girl except that I really like her heifer, from what I saw in the picture. I do get what you are saying though. Too many kids are given a whole bunch of cows at a young age so that by the time they are old enough to show, they have a really sweet bred and owned herd.  It's wrong and there's no way it will ever be stopped.

But at the same time not all kids that show bred and owned cattle are showing daddy's best cow. Some kids, myself for example, don't have parents who show or even own cattle. No one buys my cattle for me. No one breaks or clips or fits them for me. I breed them, I raise them, I get them ready, I show them. My parents watch and cheer me on. That's it. If you really wanna get technical they also usually pay for my hotel room. But don't think they pay for my feed, show supplies or entries; that's my responsibility. I definitely get annoyed when I have to compete in bred and owned classes against kids who do absolutely nothing except own the animal, but at least I'm getting the credit for showing a bred and owned animal.

My friends and I often joke that maybe someday they'll come up with a "the kid actually did 95% of the work class".

 

[obie105]

I guess I'm a bad parent then. When my son was born I transferred all of the cows of our small herd into his name including the donor. I guess I want him to have some of the opportunities that I didn't have. I started from scratch so I know what it feels like to be on the bottom. I guess if showing cattle is what he wants to do as he gets older he will have options.

I have also let kids show ones for me. If the child is working on it I don't see a problem with it. Many don't have opportunities or money to have one of their own. I figure if I buy one to improve my herd or I raise one and its sitting around someone might as well being showing it.

 

[chambero]

On any big commercial ranch or farm, dont most of the kids raised in that environment work their tails off - much harder than their city dwelling counterparts whose parents might have toy ranches? 

Why in the world would you assume the Sullivan girl (or any other child raised by a family that makes their living raising show cattle) doesnt eat-sleep-breathe cattle.  They almost certainly spend more of their time helping take care of cows than kids with 2-3 mommas.  I'd suggest they are keeping exactly with the spirit of bred and owned.

When you grow up in an operation with lots of cows, they dominate your life.  My kids skip washing/rinsing their show animals many a day because they are having to help out in the pasture.  Weekends are for pasture work, not playing with the ones in town.  I know a lot of big name kids who have to do it that way also.

 

[Freddy]

nOT ALL SITUATIONS are like this ,but I think Chambero pretty much nailed this situation ,it's pretty easy to be jealous in this situation ,but give that little gal a few years to mature and she can show any one of mine she wants to ....

 

[Showin a Shorty]

I guess I'm a bad parent then. When my son was born I transferred all of the cows of our small herd into his name including the donor. I guess I want him to have some of the opportunities that I didn't have. I started from scratch so I know what it feels like to be on the bottom. I guess if showing cattle is what he wants to do as he gets older he will have options.

I have also let kids show ones for me. If the child is working on it I don't see a problem with it. Many don't have opportunities or money to have one of their own. I figure if I buy one to improve my herd or I raise one and its sitting around someone might as well being showing it.

I agree completely, when we got into the cattle business my parents put all our cows into my name, after I was to old to show jr. EVERYTHING got transferred to my younger brother...whens hes to old they will ALL go to my sister. We have won a good deal of Bred and Owned div. and for us its a family deal. We all work the cattle and we all help make the bull choices so for us its not a big deal. It's no different for sully to put a couple cows into his daughters name than it is for a small breeder that isn't going to win putting there cows into their child's name... the diff is that nobody cares about the small breeder that isn't going to win. I wish people could just deal with losing, would make everything alot easier instead of complaining about the same big breeders on here all the time. John Sullivan is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet in any business and he just wanted to do something for his daughter when she was born. Which by the way was what 9 years ago (????) at that point was this cow producing cattle that were winning national shows???? I am honestly not sure but I do not think she was so its not even like at that time he put his "best" cows into her name. Give it a rest people they are good people and your complaining isn't going to change that!

 

[woltemathangus]

You can sit in your tub and assume that she hasn't "hammered away long and hard at it." You can't assume!

 

[easttex]

I guess I'm a bad parent then. When my son was born I transferred all of the cows of our small herd into his name including the donor. I guess I want him to have some of the opportunities that I didn't have. I started from scratch so I know what it feels like to be on the bottom. I guess if showing cattle is what he wants to do as he gets older he will have options.

I have also let kids show ones for me. If the child is working on it I don't see a problem with it. Many don't have opportunities or money to have one of their own. I figure if I buy one to improve my herd or I raise one and its sitting around someone might as well being showing it.

I guess I am too. I transferred all my cows into my daughters name when she was two. Now granted that was only five at the time, but when my second daughter was born I went and bought five for her to. All the money they make goes into their college fund. My oldest does show her own heifers, but I do help her with picking bulls to breed them to and such. I just wanted them to grow up learning the responsibilities that comes with owning cattle.

I do agree with chambero that I am sure those kids do alot of work as well and sacrifice alot of "kid stuff" bc there parents have to work the cattle and what not.

 

[aj]

Thanks for the responces. I didn't realize this was a pretty regular deal.

 

[SWMO]

We gaveour two kids several cows when they started showing and they retained all the heifers that they purchased to show.  Now it is rare for us to go out and buy any heifer to show.  I will tell you that this is a family affair at our house.  My kids work hard at what they do and have been somewhat successful at doing it.  We discuss breeding options all the time for their cows and heifers so I feel that they are always learning.  They now do most all the show barn work and I get told that I am not doing things "right".  Which is great.  I can then leave the barn and actually get a little house work done now.

These cows will hopefully fund the vast majority of their college expenses.  I don't feel that any kids that has "bred and owned" deserves your implied criticism.  Most of the kids that I know that are in the cattle business work hard weather their family is "rich" or not.  Rich is a matter of definition.  I feel that we have been blessed with the amount of time that we have been able to spend with our children and I am proud of the work ethic that they have acquired from showing livestock.

Some children have been given more opportunities at a younger age simply because their family is in the purebred business.  What criteria would you suggest?

 

[Will]

When my son was born his grandparents gave him a heifer and I gave him a heifer as a start to his college fund.  He now has ten cows and a decent sized savings account for college.  He gets all of the revenue from the selling of his calves, he uses our bulls and I pay all of the expenses of the cows each year.  It is probably the only way we can put together a college fund for him. If he wants to buy a calf he has to sell enough calves to pay for it, any money that goes into savings does not come out till college.  At the Junior Nationals we were very proud because he won a class with a calf out of the very first cow I gave him 10 years ago.  He has traded me steers for heifers to show in the past.  He now gets to make the breeding decisions on what bulls he wants to use on his cows.  We have done the same for my daughter and she now has 3 cows (seems like she has had a lot of bull calves) and a savings account.  She just traded me a steer for a heifer for her to show this fall.  Probably not the best calf in the world but maybe the best attitude of any calf I have ever seen.  In the spring she would let her pet her out in the field so she was destine to make the show barn on attitude alone. 
The Sullivan girl pulled a really nice pair of females to the Junior Nationals.  I cannot be critical of someone taking care of their family.  The girl does a good job showing and you do not do well showing with out practice. Congratulations to her.

 

[aj]

I would just do away with the "bred and owned" classification......what little I know about it.

 

[Will]

I like the bred and owned division.  Even if all of the cows are put into the kids name it has to be done before the cow is bred.  So hopefully that kid gets some input into the breeding decision of that cow.  My son has a true ownership of his calves and as a family we take great pride in showing what we have raised.  The least thing the bred and owned does is give you an additional chance to show your calf. 

 

[mick rems]

the bred and owned for me is huge. i have only been able to compete in bred and owned starting in 2011 at wi state fair. to me the b and o is proving what i have done. yeah there are kids that some parents just register the cow and calf in their kids name. but i know that i purchased all my cows as heifers. i raised and showed them. i did my research on breeding, and picking out who to AI my heifers and cows to. and its really paying off. my first b and o. was reserve champion b and o at state fair last yr as a calf. she placed 4th in her owned at badger kickoff, people have asked me where i got her and how much i paid for her, i always hav a simple response. i got her out of my cow. she was also reserve division b and o and jr nationals this yr. BTW if ur looking at the show circuit. the mainetainer bred and owned results have a wrong picture in, the info is right but the pic is wrong, it'd be the blue roan heifer from spring yearling division, that heifer was not shown in bred and owned just the owned. it should be a white heifer. (the only white heifer that was there).

this yr i have her i am legend sister going as well as her to state fair. i did all the clipping, i also do all my fitting, except for a few times when someone i know is at the show.

like i said bred and owned is more important to me cus anyone can buy the owned show. but u really can't buy the bred and owned show. yeah your gonna have controversies and people complaining, but that's everything in the cattle industry.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

I agree that maybe some people do play the paper game, but often what you see is what you get. Some of these kids really do deserve to be recognized for going the extra mile to breed the calf they drag! My sister was lucky enough to have this honor last year when she won the Supreme B & O title at WI State Fair with a Lim-Flex heifer she bred. She is very involved in breeding and maintaining her herd, as well as those belonging my mother, sister, brother and myself. I doubt anyone who knows her would begrudge her the title because of lack of effort on her part.  I think B& O is a great way to highlight and reward the future of our industry.

 

[dogger]

Aj sinks to a all time low.  Complaining about a 8 year old kid to take a jab at her daddy. Pot stirring aj never has the facts .jealousy drives him to spite. Sorry... Sorry.. Human being.

 

[aj]

The question would include any breed........put in any name. My bad on using a name. My fault....I stand corrected.