Best Charolais Bull to Add Depth

[nkotb]

I have a charolais cow, plenty stylish, maybe a tick large framed, looking for a purebred bull to moderate just a touch, and add some depth.  Used Jesse James last year, got a very nice heifer calf, but like mama could use a little more depth.  Hoping for a heifer that we can show.

 

[ferkj]

blizzard or gunsmoke

 

[Freddy]

GUNSMOKE sure could be one, haven't seen any white calves out of him yet .....  Not a fan of BLIZZARD ,to many problem's ...

Haven't used him but have semen is LT BULEGRASS ,and might be hard to get semen, might be some son's ...Ledger is great but not sure he is the pick for your type cow....LT  RIO  BRAVO ,  BUT ALSO HARD TO GET SEMEN ...we have a son that worked well for us and do have semen ...
I also have a March son this year that we think follow's his sire ,we call  him FRED REAL BRAVO .....

THE  KEYS  ALLSTATE has some depth and thickness with probably less frame  , some  calves don't travel well, but no bull is perfect and the cow is the other half of the equation . 


GAME ON  IS a YOUNG BULL  ,with a lot of the right things....

THOMAS ranch has a young BLUEGRASS  son named RHINESTONE ....

 

[Mark H]

Plenty of bulls can add depth and power.  You ned to narrow things down a bit.  The contentional answer is TR Firewater here.

What is this cows breeding? 
What needs improving?  performance?
What are you hopoing to get heifers or bulls?
How important is the showring in this?
How important is calving ease?
Here are htree bull I want you opinon on:
Merit Roundup:http://www.semexusa.com/beef/i?lang=en&beef=view&view2=MC326558
Gerrard Monezuma: https://www.bovine-elite.com/charepd2.asp?idProduct=3697&id2nd=35
One Penny Blanco Flash: http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1CH00966&lang=EN

 

[nkotb]

The cow is a Time Bandit X Dakota Wind (Wyoming Wind) bred female.  Reg. #  F1181925
I would like to increase depth, performance wise, so far, she has been good, structurally sound, milks well, clean through the front, good size bone.
Would prefer heifers out of the mating, trying to find something to show that we could also add to the herd.
Would like to have something to show
Doesn't have to be 100% heifer safe, but would prefer to not get a cow killer

I really like the Montezuma bull, but he is a paternal brother to Time Bandit.
The other two look like really good performance options, how would they work for show cattle?
I had considered TR Firewater, what about Big Creek Game Changer?

 

[Bradenh]

Game changer is a great choice

This year I used hoo made hoo in an attempt to try to belly a cow down a little, went and saw him last summer he's a moderate deep bull liked him a lot, have some in the oven coming this next spring

I'm sure tickle would also add some belly looking at his pictures and pedigree

 

[crystalcreek]

You can get sexed heifer Firewater 5 million from VeeBee Thomas at Thomas Ranch to increase your odds of a show heifer from that mating.  With the Wyo Wind behind his Oahe Wind sire, it should click on your female.  My FW's have been extremely sound and great fronted with all feet pointing north.  And they make good steer momma's to cross on Monopoly...a cross that is proven many times over.  I really like a FW son out there called SHF Fire Power.  His daughters are doing well at Nationals.  He is probably a less tubular FW son than many that are out there.  He is available to order from Bovine Elite and here is a video link  http://www.bovine-elite.com/videoPlayer.asp?id=334&dir=charolais.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the female line is Canadian, as is the Time Bandit bull behind your female?  Mr. Bill Jackson with OBG cattle would probably be a good resource for you as he works with the SVY Freedom bull in his program quite a bit.  I think Time Bandit is a son?  He would know what works, for sure.

If you want something that will be marketable if a bull comes out....look at Ledger.  Commercial bull buyers want those performance numbers with the calving ease he provides and his sons sell very well.  His heifers can be pretty fancy on the right female.

The greatest show female I've had the pleasure of watching was OBG Nancy 028.  She is a FW over an OBG Stan (Prime Cut) female.  Prime Cut is sired by 2244.  She was deep and sound and just flat good.  All of the FW x 0641 National winning sisters profile deep.  They are out of a D040 female.  D040 is sired by 2244.  Here is a Cigar (remember, Firewater is out of a Cigar daughter) out of a good donor sired by 2244.  I'll let you decide if you think she is deep or not.  We're pretty fond of her.

That Tickle bull intrigues me a lot!  Any Hoo Doo genetics will probably frame down for you.  There is a bull out there called Hoo Dat and I've attached a picture of one of his daughters, she was really fancy.

Good luck!

 

[nkotb]

I appreciate the replies so far.  I will attach a couple pictures, the first is of the cow we're trying to decide on, she is about 75 days post calving in the picture.  The other picture is her Jesse James daughter from this year.

 

[Mark H]

I like her. The use of a firewater son (or firewater himself) like fire power would definitely thicken her up and the calf would be marketable.  I would like to have better EPDs here in eeither Canada or the United States in a case a bull results.  Since she already has freedom in her I would like to use an outcross bull with better EPDs.  A good show career in the cow family would be also nice.  Since he is a freedom bloodline I would suggesta bull that works on these kind of females for Dory Gerrard: Gerrard Preacher: http://www.charolaisbanner.com/gerrard/preacher.htm
Holen Charolais has half the bull and US semen rights: https://www.facebook.com/HolenCharolais
I like Ledger as a bull.  He is good enough to already sire some bulls that are better for performance and power.  For example the Joe Doll bull DCR Mr. Substance would also work great here.  Take a look at his numbers and appearance: https://www.bovine-elite.com/charepd2.asp?idProduct=4747&id2nd=0
Another bull with a ideal EPD spread is MVY Xplorer: http://www.charolaisbanner.com/trin/2015/xplorer.gif  He also did well in the show ring in 2012.  Note you likely would have to buy the semen rights to use him.  But if those numbers hold he could be in demand in a big way.

 

[Charo]

@ Mark H We have 17 cows in calf with MVY Xplorer for next winter. We will see if those numbers hold.

 

[Mark H]

Keep us informed a a BOSS show bull of the year with a -8.0 BWT EPD and +95 on yearling seems too good to be true.  I hope it is.  It would rewrite what the goto bulls are in the industry.

 

[SWMO]

Thanks guys for the positive remarks about SHF Firepower 0080.  Go to our FB page Shaffer Cattle Company to see pictures and videos of Firepower and also of a bull called Rehab.  Both are out of our best cow families. 
First photo is of the Reserve Champion B & O at 2015 Jr Nationals sired by Firepower
Second photo is a full sib to Firepower
Third photo is a bull sired by Firepower

 

[nkotb]

Mark,

I appreciate the responses.  I really like the looks of the Substance bull.  We had tossed around Game Changer as they would keep her relatively outcross, and had also tossed around Firewater or a son as they seem to be winning everything.  The Firepower bull is one I hadn't seen before, but like the looks of.  I had thought about CML Diablo as well, but don't want to purchase a whole breeder package for one cow.

 

[Mark H]

The firepower bull has some possiblities.  The other bulls we have been talking about are all owned by Thomas ranch or they have apiece of the bull.  This includes the DCR Mr. Substance bull. I would call them up and talk about what would work best for you.  I also thought of Diablo but also know about the semen package requirements.
Take a look at their bull battery to se what i mean: http://thomasranchcattle.com/sires.html

 

[SWMO]

One more photo of a FirePower daughter.  This is a November heifer we raised that was Reserve Champion Female in the open show at the Missouri State Fair last week.  SHF Bonnies Fire 1446

 

[Bulldaddy]

Why not breed her to Monopoly or Fu Man Chu?  If the cow is registered Charolais you could show the heifer as a composite Char.

 

[diioriocattle]

Possum Trot Ranch, have you calved out any FU MAN CHU calves? I'm here in Texas also and I am just curious if the calves will slick. I heard he is the real deal, but haven't seen the calves on the ground to back that.

 

[crystalcreek]

Here's the newest pic of Ledger from LT Ranch's website.

 

[sue]

He looks even more like his sire Blue Grass !  (clapping)

 

[Charo]

Is someone know if Lt Ledger is free of the scur gene?