Best maternal Fullblood Maine bulls

[red]

I'm sure that Telos, Knabe & DL could have a field day w/ this one!

I confess I haven't ever used a Fullblood so don't know about many except for Cunia.

Red

 

[DL]

Well I have to judge the bull on the cows I know since most of the fullblood bulls were before my time (joke ;D)

My favorite fullblood cow ever was a Star Michel 2 daughter out of a Border Creek Future cow - she was to me a fabulous cow big boned, big hipped, big footed, big ribbed - great mother, very fertile - longevity (lived to 19 I think) and fabulous temperament. Her Cunia daughters were exceptional - bull calves slightly above average

what do you think Telos?

 

[olsun]

A long long time ago, in days of yore, we used several full bloods. Among them Cunia, Denver Nugget, Bysintene ( I'm sure I spelled that one wrong) Berlin, Epinal. Covino and another E bull. The last name escapes me at the moment. Of these, the best maternal bulls were Cunia, Bysentine, Epinal and Covino, in that order. I really liked the Denver Nuggets, but he calved hard, and the daus that I had didn't milk well. Berlin was more than a hard calver, he was a cow killer. I still have some Covino semen, and bred a cow to him this year. Also have some Denver Nugget, but am scared to use it. Etula and Streamliner were good bulls, but we never got to use them.

 

[olsun]

Enjoleur sp. was the other E bull that I used. Calved fairly easily, but his calves weren't as smooth as cunia, ans I don't remember any daus of note. Red Knight was a son of Cunia that sired very much like Cunia, but the daus didn't milk as well.

 

[Telos]

OK DL. You know me well enough to get my attention. ;D

Here is the pedigree of a Hillcrestview Conqueror (a Star Michael son) calf which semen is still available the last time I checked. Henry McCulloch Cattle Co. owns this son which was reserve National champion while still nursing his mother. One of my favorite "new generation" Fullbloods from a visual point of view.

http://maine-anjou.weaveyourwebdreams.com/breed/pedigree.asp?RegNo=368374

If I had another lifetime to live and a lot of money I would exploit these genetics. Also Knabe has acquired some semen of special interest on a Border Creek Future son which goes back to Vainquere on the dam's side. Hope you don't mind Knabe.

Some of these bulls never got sampled enough IMO because of bad timing or word of mouth and may have got lost in the mix.

Cunia was perhaps a savior for many reasons but could have some issues when it came to monkey mouth and some structural problems in a linebreeding scenario. He did have an uncanny ability to downsize the big ones and have good maternal value with a good look.

 

[xxcc]

I'll bite.

In my opinion, Dada may be the best maternal bullof the old fullbloods.  Other good bulls are Iabon, Coca Cola, MVH Revival, MVH Signature, Loulou, Dabla, Iralin, the list goes on.  I'm not saying Cunia, Covino III, Epinal and Bysantin were bad.  Every sire has their detractions.  I have seen tall animals out of Cunia, Covino III was not the best on milk, Epinal could have some big calves and Bysantin, well, he was maternal, but a touch on the coarse or rough side.  Iabon could sire coarse animals too. 

My justification for the earlier listed sires are the traits of udder structure, mlik, calf size at birth, calving ease at birth, breed back on females, fleshing ability while raising a big calf, how well the calf gets up and sucks when he's born, etc.  To me, those are some of the defining factors of what makes a bull maternal.

You know, in the commercial world, it's the pounds that count...but most of all, it's the live pounds that count.  Calves lost due to dystocia (sp? DL), cows not breeding back and calves that don't weigh up may be some of the most deciding factors it what define the life expectancy of a cow in the commercial world and if seedstock producers are not passing that on with their genetics, then what's the point?

PS.  I hope the BCF son is better than his daddy.  I used BCF on 3 cows last year, beautiful calves from a side profile, but junk in regard to performance.  I have seriously contemplated throwing the rest of the semen away.

 

[justintime]

My experience with fullblood Maine sires is exclusive to many of the original imports, so I have little experience with more recent sires. When the Maine cattle were imported we used many of early imports on our herd, which at the time was over 300 Shorthorn cows. Some of the sires we used were: Capone, Covino III, Cunia, Bysantin, Prairie Blizzard, Dalton, Dollar II,Dabla, and Etula. There were a few later bulls that were used in small amounts but I do not remember any daughters being retained.

Of these sires, daughters were kept off all of these bulls, in our herd. Cunia and Prairie Blizzard were similar in size and both were considered easy calving sires. Both these bulls left moderate framed calves, and we had no calving issues with either of them. Cunia was a little better than P Blizzard in producing productive females. We did have some very good Blizzard daughters and some were among the best 1/2 and 3/4 Maines we had. I remember a couple P Blizzard daughters out of Capone sired dams that were very good females. Of all the Maines we had, I would have to say that the Cunia's were the best for fertiliy, fleshing ability, and maternal traits. The Prairie Blizzard's were probably close to the Cunia daughters. We also had some very good Capone and Covino III daughters. The females from these two sires had a little more frame than the Cunia's and P Blizzards, but they were very good cows. These 4 bulls were my favorites of that era. Our experience with Bysantin, Dalton, Dollar II, Dabla, and Etula were very mixed to say the least. Most of the daughters of these bulls never stayed long as there were lots of issues with fertility, milk, fleshing ability and udder quality.  The daughters from the first four bulls I mentioned were much superior in all these traits, in my experience. But I think we need to remember, this was how these sires worked in my herd, and with the genetic make-up of this herd. I am sure others may have seen differing results with the genetics in their herd.

I only have one fullblood Maine in the herd at the present time. She is a daughter of Border Creek Future and she is not yet in production. I will know more next year when she has her first calf. Right now, I would have to say that I am impressed with her. She is super thick and very correct. Her dam was a 2300 lb daughter of Hillcrestview Conqueror 28C( a son of Star Michel 2 10M). Her dam was a many times Champion in Canada and we lost her last year. She milked with the  best of them, so I do not think there will be any issues in regards to milking ability with her BC Future daughter.

 

[knabe]

PS.  I hope the BCF son is better than his daddy.  I used BCF on 3 cows last year, beautiful calves from a side profile, but junk in regard to performance.  I have seriously contemplated throwing the rest of the semen away.

ditto, though he has 7/8 FE genes.  who knows.  more about dabla  xxcc?  can he add a tick of base width, not elongate cannons, not take depth of rib, shorten the spine?  i'm assuming he's maternal enough, he's in midas afterall, though form midas' picture, i'm a little perplexed about his length and height sometimes.  maybe that's dabla.

 

[red]

Are they're any newer Fullbloods that will stand the test of time? I know Stud Muffin is fairly new but believe he's a PHAC

Red

 

[red]

found this in the classifieds for you FullBlood purist.

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=6031.0

 

[diamonddls]

In my experience Capone and Cunia are good cow makers. Coca cola another one that can really add some stoutnesss and more moderate frame as well. Growing up my mom had really well made Dollar2 cow probably the nicest fullblood cow I seen. Rentons in Alberta have a nice maternal set of fullbloods. I bought a bull from them Wildberrys Yosha 120Y. He's thrown me some terrific outcross heifers.

 

[xxcc]

There are a lot of maternal full blood bulls. Capone can be good, but can also sire questionable teat structure. In your Renton bull, you have some good influence with River Ridge 15G. From all of my experience...even thought I have never seen her, only used genetics Southview Miss 206A is quite possibly the best fullblood Maine-Anjou cow born in North America EVER.

 

[JTM]

Well I have to judge the bull on the cows I know since most of the fullblood bulls were before my time (joke ;D)

My favorite fullblood cow ever was a Star Michel 2 daughter out of a Border Creek Future cow - she was to me a fabulous cow big boned, big hipped, big footed, big ribbed - great mother, very fertile - longevity (lived to 19 I think) and fabulous temperament. Her Cunia daughters were exceptional - bull calves slightly above average

what do you think Telos?

AOM Topsy 290T ??? I had a bull a few years back and got a couple of daughters still in production. He was out of a cow sired by Cunia out of a Star Michel 2 daughter out of a Border Creek Future cow. Here is a picture of him and his registration number. He is gone now. Registration # 342729