Best put down a Judge has used

[CarleyE]

I was at the red wave classic show in fresno, ca. And I was watching the class of AOC prospect steers. The class was mostly mediocre commercial calves, and there was one clubby steer in the whole class, and the judge put the clubby steer dead last in the class and his reasoning was " I just don't have a calf in this class that could follow this calf, I don't know what to do with him"

 

[kfacres]

I was at the red wave classic show in fresno, ca. And I was watching the class of AOC prospect steers. The class was mostly mediocre commercial calves, and there was one clubby steer in the whole class, and the judge put the clubby steer dead last in the class and his reasoning was " I just don't have a calf in this class that could follow this calf, I don't know what to do with him"

Was at a County steer show in Texas a few years back and their was one calf that was by far better than anything else in the ring. Judge said that this calf was a sure enough show steer, he was the stoutest and soundest calf in the show but their was nothing else that compared to him so he placed him third. He said he needed his grand and reserve to be identical.

Let's just say things got pretty heated after that

Being a recent College judging team member- I can see where this could be true, and happening all the time..  In college, we were preached, either first, third, or DAL in instances like this... Don't try to hedge and break up the pair. 

This is also where I feel those who excell in collegiant judging are actually failing the industry.  Why shows are taking the great judgers, and picking them out to continue- I'll never know.. Instead of picking the real 'common sense', members of the team, who will do a far better job of evaluating, and talking the livestock- but they never won a national champion banner. 

 

[bsshow]

At our state fair this year. The judge placed my little brother 5th in class and when he was talking about all the steers. he started off saying "the steer in the 5th hole that the little boy is showing is the sleeper in the whole class. He will prolly be the best one in the summer but i cant use him today because the little boy looks a little lost" i mean really this is a prospect show. There was some mad people after this.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I have to admit that even as a judge I get upset with what judges do sometimes. But mostly I get upset when a judge says something about a calf that isnt true.  Like when he calls the cleanest fronted animal in the class to coarse fronted to compete or something like that.  But as long as what a judge says matches the calf, then I respect his/her decision for placing the class the way they do.  After all they are the ones who are paid for their opinions to count that day.  I think many of the things posted on here as slams were most likely not slams at all.  For instance the judge at the prospect show sayin the calf was a sleeper but the showman seemed lost.  Were the calves that beat him good calves, if so the "lost" showman may not have gotten the animal presented and the others looked better that day because they were presented better. Not a slam, a fact so that the child can learn and know what needs to be done in order to succeed.  Wes Hudson talking about killing cows. I have heard him use this term before, its not meant to say she is a bad animal persay, he means it in terms of she is to terminal appearing and very powerful, if you were looking for one to kill to put a lot of meat in the freezer then she would be it. Not a slam, a statement.  The judge using the clubby calf last in a class full of more commercial type steers.  Its really difficult in these situations when you have one really unique animal in the class that just doesnt fit with the rest of the class, they pretty much either have to be first or last in that situation because you simply cant compare them justly to the rest of the class. And just because they are very unique doesnt mean they are the best one that deserves to win.
I am not saying that some judges dont get a little harsh, but a lot of times I think the people on the outside of the ring(parents, etc) are a little to thin skinned.  As a judge I see the faces, the temper tantrums, and hear the comments made a lot of times when I point out a negative characteristic on an animal.  Its like the people are to blind to see the faults in their own calves and get irrate when you point them out.  I was told growing up in Judging Contest that even in the best calf you can find something that you would improve and even in the worst you can find something good to say.  So to make it fair in Jr Shows I always find something to say I would change or strengthen on the class winner, some area that another calf in the class exells it, and in my last place I find something to say good that it exells the class on.  But it does baffle me when people get mad if you say the negatives on the calf or showman for that matter.  The purpose of this is for these young exhibitors to learn, and if we dont point out the negatives and do a good job of explaining why they placed the way they did, then we are doing them and the project itself an injustice and making it all about just coming and getting a ribbon or a banner.

 

[kfacres]

On the same train of thought.. Sometimes while judging, I've been asked to evaluate some animals, that i truly struggled to say anything positive about- truth be told. 

I think the more appropriate question should be, what have you heard from judges- on the sorriest animals to make them sound good? 

I've struggled at times, but I know one thing.. that on almost everyone of them- "they appeared to me, to be an excellent learning opportunity, of which I hope this young exhibitor has learned enough from to continue building their career into the future".

 

[husker1]

Local county fair three years ago...young lady just off the state U judging team.  Breeding heifer championship drive...talked the Hereford, and ended with "...after all, she is just a Hereford."  I actually didn't hear it, but, being a 4-H council member, heard plenty about it afterward.  We are good friends of the family with the Hereford heifer, and I still commonly use that phrase around them!

Which brings me to another funny Hereford story.  For the last several years, we borrowed a friend's gomer bulls to finish A.I.ing.  They have always been ugly little Hereford bulls.  Well, the first day pulling up at the county fair last summer, my 8 year old threw out a classic..."man, look, someone has a whole line of gomers here."  I was confused, but it turns out that with growing up around Hereford gomer bulls, he was under the impression that the red and white ones are gomers, not Herefords.  Funny deal.  ;D

 

[Show Dad]

I'm not a big fan of extension agents judging. At our county fair a year ago one actually said, in a class where there was a heifer that had been shown nationally (you could tell it stood out), "I placed this one in last because it has done it's winning other places and we want to be fair and spread the winning around."  (But guess what it hadn't won anything other than 3rd in class at a Jr National)

In a junior show judges need to teach something to the kids. What did that teach? And they need to be consistent while teaching!

 

[MCC]

First of all, Aussie I want to congratulate you on a very good topic. I would have done this earlier but I couldn't stop laughing at some of these posts. They are priceless.

husker1 that reminds me of things my boy's used to say. Embarrassing but funny.

SD, I agree most county agents are like a lot of college judges if you get over 4 in a class they are lost. The only thing worse is when the county agent hires the judge that his kids bought their calves from.

 

[cattlejunky5]

In showmanship, a judge came over the microphone and said, "I dont understand why these animals arent fit, these kids can show, but they didnt fit their calves...". Keep in mind this was showmaship!

 

[chiangus]

Judging is tough and granted I only judged on a team and not a ring full of kids.  I dont have a problem with placings as long as he/she stays consistent. 

 

[kfacres]

Judging is tough and granted I only judged on a team and not a ring full of kids.  I dont have a problem with placings as long as he/she stays consistent. 

which speaking as a judge... is extremely hard to do at some shows....  sometimes, when people are bringing everything out and throwing it at you...  you are being paid, or asked to pick the 'best' animal in that class, in that division, and on that day.  In one class, it might be the smallest, chunkiest one, and in the next, it could be the biggest most extreme. 

For instance, in a fat steer class one day, 3 steers were brought out to me... One 700 lb, really sweet club calf type deal, one 1600, FAT, worthless, deal who was as far from ideal weight as the 7 weight.. and one that was close to weight, but had no shape, was crippled, hound gutted, and just plain didn't have a lick of meat on his bones...  What do you do?  I started with the 700 lb calf... boy were people pissed.. but you know what, he was the best calf of the day, and I also used him for reserve in that county fair... the market steers were pathetic, and he was a legit good, quality calf.. that just needed a few more days on feed.. but the point, I kept making was that if I was picking one to eat, that day.. he'd still be my choice, from a quality meat shaped animal standpoint.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

Yeah I think the "consistancy" argument is overated the way most people see it.  The best judge, and frankly only good one in my opinion, is one that will go out and pick the most complete animal that exhibits the best balance and combination of all the traits we select for.  Some judges for instance pick based solely on feminity and style.  It doesnt matter if the heifer is 3 legged, frail boned, and so narrow she can walk through a picket fence, if she is the prettiest fronted one she has it one. As long as a judge picks that way in every class most people are happy, they might not have liked what he picked, but at least he was consistant.  But let a judge come in there that pics the most complete calf that puts together the most good, have a really refined big bodied heifer win one class and a little less refined, heavier boned stouter structured one win another one, and it doesnt matter if they were everybodies favorite in each respective class, you will never hear the end of the ragging on that judge because he "wasnt consistant", um yes he was, he consistantly picked what he thought was the best animal in each class.  Thats the way I judge, some people hate me, some love me.  As long as I leave feeling confident I picked the right ones thats all that matters.
And for the people trashing judging team members and saying they are lost if there are more than 4 calves in the ring, its a different ball game.  When you are judging big classes, some things are bound to get past you, if we spent the time evaluating each individual animal and looking at each small detail that we look for in a judging contest, then you would probably get pretty irate with the amount of time it took us to get a show judged.  I think they do just fine if they have been taught to judge right.  Find whatever is easiest to place, either your top or your botton and line em up from there, thats really all it is.
What I would be curious to know is, out of all the people on here that slam judges on a pretty consistant basis, how many of them are asked to judge a show on any kind of regular basis? Its easy to sit in stands and throw insults, its a whole different ballgame to be the one on the ground with everybody's eyes on you.

 

[kfacres]

 As long as I leave feeling confident I picked the right ones thats all that matters.
I've never left a show feeling that I missed something.. and you know, in my mind....  I've never switched a pair from anybody, anytime...

I think they do just fine if they have been taught to judge right.  

That's all you have to do, but unfortantely, this doesn't really happen, and quite a few of those people get on this one way track mind... and I know from personal experience lose track of what's current.  Since college, I haven't been to a pig show, and very few cattle shows... I can't say I know what's current... Yet I'll still judge a county fair, where it won't matter anyways, cuz they'll only be a few continders there on that day, and their stock will be good enough to smoke the field.. I can say though, when I get asked to judge something a little different, the first person I call up is somebody who's in the loop of what's going on..  

What I would be curious to know is, out of all the people on here that slam judges on a pretty consistant basis, how many of them are asked to judge a show on any kind of regular basis? Its easy to sit in stands and throw insults, its a whole different ballgame to be the one on the ground with everybody's eyes on you.

KEY Statement.. to be honest, I don't judge as many shows as I'd like to, and it's almost soley b/c I turn them down.  I don't have the time, or the days to take off work to travel around and do that type of thing anymore.  and furthermore, where I live, quite a few of the county fairs, are shutting the doors for good, or atleast doing away with livestock shows.  I was asked to go judge a sheep show in Mexico- great deal, everything paid for, plus cash, interpretor, you know the whole works...  But I couldnt' do it, didn't want to be gone for that long, and I forget, but I think I was in the middle of lambing season at the time.  

 

[Millbrookshortys]

In showmanship, a judge came over the microphone and said, "I dont understand why these animals arent fit, these kids can show, but they didnt fit their calves...". Keep in mind this was showmaship!

Showmanship is about presenting your animal to the best of your ability, fitting is one more effort you can take to do so.

 

[kfacres]

In showmanship, a judge came over the microphone and said, "I dont understand why these animals arent fit, these kids can show, but they didnt fit their calves...". Keep in mind this was showmaship!

Showmanship is about presenting your animal to the best of your ability, fitting is one more effort you can take to do so.

and I bet next year, if those kids plan to win... they'll clip up their animals-- or atleast try.

 

[kfacres]

At a local show my heifer was the only Hereford in a group of blacks. When commenting on my her the judge said "This hereford heifer is long, deep bodied, wide, travels well & has great udder development... But I placed her last because she just doesn't have the power to compete with these black heifers above her" Some judges just can't see past color!

what's wrong with that.. I bet he was right.. I've not seen very many Herf heifers that had the power to compete with a black one, let alone a good black one...

 

[roper]

At a local show the judge said we had the best 5th place heifer he had seen.  Three weeks later she was Reserve Supreme Heifer at the Indiana State Fair.  I believe the local judge was an idiot.

 

[simba]

At a local show my heifer was the only Hereford in a group of blacks. When commenting on my her the judge said "This hereford heifer is long, deep bodied, wide, travels well & has great udder development... But I placed her last because she just doesn't have the power to compete with these black heifers above her" Some judges just can't see past color!

what's wrong with that.. I bet he was right.. I've not seen very many Herf heifers that had the power to compete with a black one, let alone a good black one...

What's wrong is that according to his reasons (and many other people) she was the best heifer in the ring. He discribed a complete powerhouse. His comments completely contradicted eachother.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

At a local show my heifer was the only Hereford in a group of blacks. When commenting on my her the judge said "This hereford heifer is long, deep bodied, wide, travels well & has great udder development... But I placed her last because she just doesn't have the power to compete with these black heifers above her" Some judges just can't see past color!

what's wrong with that.. I bet he was right.. I've not seen very many Herf heifers that had the power to compete with a black one, let alone a good black one...

What's wrong is that according to his reasons (and many other people) she was the best heifer in the ring. He discribed a complete powerhouse. His comments completely contradicted eachother.

It is true that he made her sound pretty good, but we didnt get the rest of the reasons or see the rest of the class, what he said about her doesnt necessarily contradict her placing at the bottom...it could describe a lot of heifers that have been at the bottom for me in the past, some of them black against other colored cattle...and they were really good heifers the problem was the rest of the heifers in the classes were even better.

 

[kfacres]

"This hereford heifer is long, deep bodied, wide, travels well & has great udder development...
What's wrong is that according to his reasons (and many other people) she was the best heifer in the ring. He discribed a complete powerhouse. His comments completely contradicted eachother.

those words, to me... just mean a functional type heifer that just isn't good enough in anyone particular area to beat those above her... and those words are all so general blanket terms-- I bet he felt struggling to find enough good to say about her.

If I was taking about some beast who was a complete POWERHOUSE, in those words I would put it like this...
"This Hereford heifer, without a doubt in my mind is one unique individual-- I really love how sound she is on the travel, and the udder development at this stage of the game.  However, it's her shear power in skeletal width, body depth and muscle expression that sort her to the top easily for me.". 

That's the difference between talking a last place heifer, and a complete powerhouse-- but saying the exact same thing... 

Now, if he stuck "But today, b/c of her color and breed-- and my lack of desire for them... I buried her into last hole", then...  It would be questionable, and contradicting in statement.