Big Calves ?

[irh]

Well for one thing I didn't say heifer's .  I had three year olds and four year old Ali cows having these calves I stated that wrong.  At any rate when they are saying 89lbs birth weights they shouldn't be having any trouble calving.  But the 110lbs calves are the ones giving us troubles.

 

[irh]

Oh and by the way Show Heifer according to the books I have they are considering Dr. Who a 3 star calving ease bull, should work on three and four year olds. DUH!

 

[DTW]

You would think Dr. Who is calving ease and he has been advertised that way but i know of some that have been 120 lb range.  Any time we use these club calf bulls there is a chance for problems.  and the weight isnt the issue it is how they are shaped.  And who made who is in the pedigree.  I know alot of people swear he is calving ease but if you have enough of them you will have a big one.  I remember a heifer that we cripped pulling out of a first calf heifer.

I had a Rodman angus calf today and it taped at around 100 lbs.  Good thing it was out of a second calfer.  But that cow is a gold member out of a full flush.  I would say calves are bigger than last year from looking at her calf from l ast year.  This one is 15 lbs heifer and both were out of angus bulls. 

 

[irh]

DTw, you are exactly right one the money, with any of these club calf bulls.

 

[DL]

Well for one thing I didn't say heifer's .   I had three year olds and four year old Ali cows having these calves I stated that wrong.  At any rate when they are saying 89lbs birth weights they shouldn't be having any trouble calving.  But the 110lbs calves are the ones giving us troubles.

Well I guess your post was unclear - I read 2 year old and figured it was a heifer - who knew. You might want to consider that some of the calving ease Maine bulls do not necessarily have the pelvic area needed to successfully deliver a calf, esp if they are clubby crossed - you might want to consider having your cattle pelvic measured before using clubby bulls on them. One would certainly expect a mature cow to be able to have an 89 pound calf - did you actually weigh these calves or is it a guess on their weight? One also might want to consider that it is not just the weight of the calf that determines calving success but also the shape of the calf - smooth shouldered and hipped calves  are much less likely to cause problems than square shouldered big hipped calves, the latter being what many clubby bulls produce. You might also want to consider what a 3 star calving ease bull means - what is the accuracy of that number? What kind of cows were those numbers generated on? Is it 3 out of 5? That would put it middle of the road, not calving ease, which is in line with the +2.5 BW EPD in the SEK catalog. Using clubby bulls is always a gamble - the bulls genetics, the cow genetic make up, the pelvic area of the cow, the shape of the calf, the weight of the calf, the BCS of the cow all play a roll...and yeah Dr Who should work on mature cows unless they have the pelvic area of a peanut

 

[irh]

DL, yes we do weigh all the calves, we've never measured the pelvic area, thanks for the info, going to make some changes on these cows for next years breding.  We have been doing this for 18 years, we are not new at this either.  Just a bad year I guess.

 

[cattle nut]

Breeding clubby sires to clubby momma's over and over will definitely cause BW to show up. Do yourself a favor, use the right Angus bull. I really think the club calf industry is missing out by not using the right angus bulls from time to time.

 

[justintime]

Breeding clubby sires to clubby momma's over and over will definitely cause BW to show up. Do yourself a favor, use the right Angus bull. I really think the club calf industry is missing out by not using the right angus bulls from time to time.

I would agree totally with cattlenut, but I would amend his statement to say " use the right Angus, Hereford or Shorthorn bulls from time to time"

 

[forbes family farms]

Just had two calves at 2:30 this morning out of two GREAT cows one was 120 pound heifer that will make an extreme show calf in her future.The other one was 110 pound heifer that will also make  great show heifer in her future. Both unassisted.

 

[Show Heifer]

forbes, glad it worked out for you with those large bw.  Keep that in mind when selecting a bull down road, Not only as heifers, but way after that. 

irh, I would suggest heatwave when he first came out (according to the books) he had a 90 pound birth weight. (Ok, it has gone up dramatically since but "according to the books")
Or maybe salute, when he was first on the scene (according to the books)  he was going to single handedly change the shorthorn and clubbie world (He did, he killed a lot of cows trying to calve)

Dr. Who is a great bull. I use him myself, ON MATURE COWS WITH NO BIRTH WEIGHT BEHIND THEM.  Hannibal is another I use, ON MATURE COWS WITH NO BIRTH WEIGHT BEHIND THEM.

Do not come one here complaining about bw and asking what others are having when you breed to huge birth weight calves. Accept that YOU made a poor decision and move on. You apparently are in the clubbie industry. Part of that industry is HUGE birth weights, c-sections, and dead cows and calves. Deal with it, or get out.

(Yes, I am not in a good mood, but I am sick of people pansy stepping around the obvious)

 

[irh]

Boy Show Heifer you sure have an attitide, calm down girlfriend.  I thought this site was for asking for help now and then not to be put down and tell me we shouldn't be in the cattle business. 

 

[C-CROSS]

We just cut out a Bismark and his is calving ease.  It is the year and genntics.  if we cant hand pull the feet out we head to the vet.  A live calf and cow with a c-section is alot better than dead one or down ones IMO.  We had 9 c -sections last year and every one of them bred back.  I am not afraid of a  c-section at all.

 

[Hoosier]

I would challenge that also but did you ever notice that in a feed yard of fat heifers.  If one has a calf they are always a little thing.  You would think with 20 lbs of corn a day you would get a huge calf.

I have to disagree with you on that one DTW.  I've pulled plenty of big calves out of feedlot heifers, some of em in unconventional ways.

 

[Schaadfarms]

we have our first c section tomarrow at ohio state at 10:30 . cheacked her this morning calf is coming up side down and cant feel head. she is a recipe 7 days late heatwave-cunia.feel like its the best choice

 

[irh]

What do they charge for a c-section?  We had our first one last year after 18 years, cost us $350.  Maybe be looking at another one the end of April.

 

[rtmcc]

I would challenge that also but did you ever notice that in a feed yard of fat heifers.  If one has a calf they are always a little thing.  You would think with 20 lbs of corn a day you would get a huge calf.

I have to disagree with you on that one DTW.  I've pulled plenty of big calves out of feedlot heifers, some of em in unconventional ways.

Most of these feed lot heifers have been implanted.  This affects them and their calves in many strange ways.  Very few of these calves survive.  Thats the reason for not implanting breeding heifers.
Ron
<cowboy>

 

[CAB]

What do they charge for a c-section?  We had our first one last year after 18 years, cost us $350.  Maybe be looking at another one the end of April.

That's within $5.00 of what I paid last season. I notice that Dusty had said $250.00 last week.

 

[Hilltop]

The part I find the most frustrating is when we seem to be the only people with big calves from a certain bull. I am no genius when it comes to genetics but why would a bull that is "SUPPOSED" to have a mid 70lb BW be siring calves that have 110-120lb BW calves out of females that have BW that where high 80 to low 90? The females almost all have absolutely no common denominater as far as pedigree. This bull is not from the  southern states either. Our cows get absolutely no grain before calving and were wintered on slough and tame hay from 2007 and 2008. Our cows do not get a lot of exercise the last 10 days but will that last little bit make that much of a difference??? This is making me think of the one thread that discussed EPDS. Are EPDS only for the dishonest? Last winter we had a couple of C-S becaused of backwards calves. Calve were not small but I know they would of come out if head first. Last night one of our best cows and favourite amoung all visitors ended up with a C-S. I felt like s--t as my wife headed down the road at 11:30 pm with our friend in the trailer, and me at home with our daughter because I head to leave for work in 6 hours. The calf had a flippin head as wide as the cows. Never weighed him but I had a hell of a time to pick him up out of trailer when Kim got home. I am sure he is probably 120 or close to.We have some awesome calves out of him, which was supposed to be our heifer bull but I am really wondering if we will use him much at all again. I really needed to vent as we are all so dissapointed, especially our daughter!

 

[C-CROSS]

I went to a ABS meeting not too long ago and they were expalining how some large birth weights can come out of these calve ese bulls, not a lot but the chance is there.

 

[Dusty]

What do they charge for a c-section?  We had our first one last year after 18 years, cost us $350.  Maybe be looking at another one the end of April.

That's within $5.00 of what I paid last season. I notice that Dusty had said $250.00 last week.

i just got a bill yesterday.  250 for the c-section and 30 for the clinic call.  So 280 all together