black angus bull question

[vanridge]

Our 11 year old son saved up his 4-H steer money over the last number of years and this past fall was able to purchase his first purebred black angus cow.  (clapping)
She is bred to calve March 1st to WAF Zorzal 321U. He is looking at the semen catalogues trying to decide what to breed her to next... Last night he came home from school and thought Cole Creek Cedar Ridge 1V might be a good choice. From what we can find on the internet it's pretty positive. We looked at a few Youtube videos and noticed he has a bit too much set to his rear legs. Does anyone have opinion on this bull? Or suggestions of a bull that you think is good? He's looking for a cow maker with a bit of calving ease (not to extreme).

 

[Lucky_P]

Depends on what you're shooting for. 
Cedar Ridge and his sire, Black Cedar, are both well-liked by low-input commercial Angus folks who aren't necessarily chasing numbers, and looking for cows with stayability and ability to 'do it' on whatever forage is present.
Don't know if CR will throw anything that would win in the show ring, but he should make some good, productive, real-world cows that will work.  CR & BC have both been discussed at length on other boards; PM me if you'd like me to point you toward those discussions.

 

[vanridge]

Lucky P what you described is exactly what he is looking for. He is trying to build a solid, strong herd with stayability. He is looking for cows that will make him money. Easy keepers, good conformation etc. We have been trying to teach him that what you want to see in your pasture is what you should show in the show ring. Doesn't matter what the judge thinks, it's your name on the ownership papers and you have to take her home! Show what you grow.

Cedar Ridge is a Black Cedar son.

 

[Till-Hill]

Got 7 coming out of commercial angus heifers March 5th or so. I am also very excited about this bull. Outcross genetics and looks as he does alot of things right. Going to use him on some SimAngus heifers this summer.

 

[leanbeef]

I'll start off by saying I think your 11-year-old had a pretty decent eye! I like this bull in the photo, but that's about all I can speak of on him. I'm not familiar with that pedigree, and I haven't heard of the bull before. I looked online and couldn't find a video of him anywhere, although he doesn't LOOK like he has too much set in the photo. I know sometimes a photo doesn't exactly represent cattle as they are, so I'll just have to take your word on that. As far as soundness and structure, I would just say I'd rather cows have a little more set than they need than not enough. A straight legged one won't last as long.

I raise Simmental and SimAngus cattle, and we're AIing some Angus females to Angus bulls as well. I'm basically responsible for the matings on about 100 cows a year. We raise seed stock cattle with commercial appeal...the birth weights on the bull calves have to be acceptable for commercial cattlemen, the calves need to have some performance and growth, and they have to be sound and functional with some eye appeal. We're not trying to raise show cattle...we raise breeding cattle. A few of them do get shown, but that's not our primary target. We market primarily through an annual production sale and private treaty sales off the farm, and we've been in the seed stock cattle business since 1971.

Thought I'd share a few names of some Angus bulls we're either using or have considered...there are a bunch of em out there! I do use some Simmental and SimAngus bulls in addition, and I like the Simmental x Angus cross a LOT, but I'll keep this list focused on the purebred Angus bulls...

The bulls I chose this past fall were Connealy Consensus 7229, Connealy Right Answer 746, Yon Future Focus T219, and EXAR Upshot. These bulls seemed to put together the phenotype, pedigree, and EPDs that worked the best for me right now. The Right Answer bull was used exclusively on virgin heifers. Consensus and Future Focus would be the first two I would recommend to somebody in your situation. Those two might be the ones I'm most excited about. I've seen some Future Focus daughters at Yon's in South Carolina, and they're pretty nice. He'll make em real deep and cowy, moderate enough in frame with plenty of growth, and sound legged. The bulls at Yon's last fall sold VERY well with one son going to ABS for $20,000. I have one purebred bull calf on the ground and a handful of Simmental cows bred to him. I haven't actually seen any Consensus calves, but I've seen a bunch of photos of calves I really like, and that bull seems really hot right now. I used him on both Simmental and Angus cows.

I bought a GDAR Game Day heifer last year that has a really nice heifer calf by Benfield Substance. I don't know that I would have picked that bull out on my own, but I really like this heifer calf a lot. A few other bulls I've either sampled or considered using are SydGen Mandate, S S Fast Track, Connealy In Focus 4925, S Chisum, 6175, S A V Pioneer, and Quakerhill Objective 3J15. We had a couple of nice SimAngus heifers out of 3J15 and some real nice SimAngus bulls sired by Pioneer. I just have one Fast Track baby on the ground now, and it's a little early to tell much about her, but she seems to be doing well. Haven't actually used Mandate, 4925, or Chisum, but there are some things I sure like about those bulls. I do have a yearling heifer sired by Mandate, and I think she'll make a nice cow.

There are several Angus bulls I'm trying to keep on my radar, and the list seems to keep growing. I do look at EPDs pretty closely, and a lot of bulls I might like otherwise tend to sort themselves when I bring in the EPD package. Even if it's one or two numbers that stick out, that's enough to keep a bull from getting used in our program. But we don't JUST look at EPDs...that's the fastest way to have a train wreck in my opinion! Find the bulls you like first, then sort them on paper. If they aren't good on the hoof, the EPDs are completely useless.

Lastly, I'll just mention this... Every breeder looks at calving ease and birth weight and growth and maternal. The real cattlemen I try to learn from pay a lot of attention to some numbers that not everybody even considers... Don't ignore a Maternal Calving Ease EPD or a Scrotal EPD, and I've learned to watch the Docility number as well. EPDs can be a little overwhelming, and I know not everybody believes in them, but they're a pretty good tool if you know how to use em.

Tell your son good luck! The only thing more exciting than choosing a mating is seeing that baby hit the ground!

 

[goodnight]

Our 11 year old son saved up his 4-H steer money over the last number of years and this past fall was able to purchase his first purebred black angus cow.  (clapping)
She is bred to calve March 1st to WAF Zorzal 321U. He is looking at the semen catalogues trying to decide what to breed her to next... Last night he came home from school and thought Cole Creek Cedar Ridge 1V might be a good choice. From what we can find on the internet it's pretty positive. We looked at a few Youtube videos and noticed he has a bit too much set to his rear legs. Does anyone have opinion on this bull? Or suggestions of a bull that you think is good? He's looking for a cow maker with a bit of calving ease (not to extreme).

The last thing I would worry about with Cedar Ridge is soundness. They won't have the grow that you can get with other lines, but they are maternal to the core. I would also look at EXT, 1483, or the traverer lines (044, 6807, etc). Those are good old school, maternal lines. A bull that doesn't get mentioned a lot is 1483 and he sires the best udders of any Angus bull, period. I went back and used some 1483 last year as my blast from the past bull.

 

[vanridge]

Loving this discussion!  <rock> Keep it coming! Here is the one Youtube videos we watched from Cedar Ridge.

http://youtu.be/fp2kVXhnXSI

 

[vanridge]

Our 11 year old son saved up his 4-H steer money over the last number of years and this past fall was able to purchase his first purebred black angus cow.   (clapping)
She is bred to calve March 1st to WAF Zorzal 321U. He is looking at the semen catalogues trying to decide what to breed her to next... Last night he came home from school and thought Cole Creek Cedar Ridge 1V might be a good choice. From what we can find on the internet it's pretty positive. We looked at a few Youtube videos and noticed he has a bit too much set to his rear legs. Does anyone have opinion on this bull? Or suggestions of a bull that you think is good? He's looking for a cow maker with a bit of calving ease (not to extreme).

The last thing I would worry about with Cedar Ridge is soundness. They won't have the grow that you can get with other lines, but they are maternal to the core. I would also look at EXT, 1483, or the traverer lines (044, 6807, etc). Those are good old school, maternal lines. A bull that doesn't get mentioned a lot is 1483 and he sires the best udders of any Angus bull, period. I went back and used some 1483 last year as my blast from the past bull.

Some of the old school semen would be pretty hard to get a hold of? He has looked at some Traveler progeny (mostly with SAV in the prefix..)
Leanbeef, we will be doing some homework on the  computer tonight to look up some of those sires as well  (thumbsup) . 1/2 the fun is in the hunt for a good bull One thing that appeals to my son is the $ of the semen on Cedar Ridge... Maybe it shouldn't matter but he is learning what it means to pay bills....

 

[leanbeef]

Loving this discussion!  <rock> Keep it coming! Here is the one Youtube videos we watched from Cedar Ridge.

Thanks for posting the video. He looks like a cow maker, and I do see what you mean re set to the hock. Still...I'd rather have more than less.

 

[Aussie]

Vanridge some good bulls mentioned. I am a bit concerned about the set in CR to me he might have back feet problems. Connealy Consensus 7229 as Leanbeef is siring so very good calves which are also popular. Others you might consider Southland Thriller owned by Dave longshore Bar E L angus very thick set throwing some great looking calves. R/M ironstone calves look good at home this year old pedigree on this bull but it works. A bull the has worked well for me but has a bit of frame but makes good females older genetics is Hyline Right Way 781

 

[Lucky_P]

leanbeef,
My farm manager(my wife) is all about maximum weaning weights.  I want 'em to weigh up good, but I'm still focused on the maternal side of the equation - but also selecting for carcass traits - marbling,ribeye, tenderness.
Used a can of Mandate 2 years ago.  Was very disappointed - the steers sure didn't have the 'grow' that I expected, and had no rear quarter to speak of, all the heifers, with the exception of one, were dinky little throwaways; granted, most were out of first-calf N Bar Prime Time D806 daughters(I'm still regretting that breeding selection), but even those out of daughters of the natural service sire were pretty unimpressive.  YMMV, but I won't use him again.

vanridge, I agree, your son has a good eye; of the Genex Angus lineup, Cedar Ridge is probably my pick for a bull that would deliver what I'm looking for in a cow-maker.

 

[rarebirdz]

Loving this discussion!  <rock> Keep it coming! Here is the one Youtube videos we watched from Cedar Ridge.

Thanks for posting the video. He looks like a cow maker, and I do see what you mean re set to the hock. Still...I'd rather have more than less.

Cedar ridge has a little bit to much set for me. I like  Connealy Consensus 7229

 

[leanbeef]

leanbeef,
My farm manager(my wife) is all about maximum weaning weights.  I want 'em to weigh up good, but I'm still focused on the maternal side of the equation - but also selecting for carcass traits - marbling,ribeye, tenderness.
Used a can of Mandate 2 years ago.  Was very disappointed - the steers sure didn't have the 'grow' that I expected, and had no rear quarter to speak of, all the heifers, with the exception of one, were dinky little throwaways; granted, most were out of first-calf N Bar Prime Time D806 daughters(I'm still regretting that breeding selection), but even those out of daughters of the natural service sire were pretty unimpressive.  YMMV, but I won't use him again.

Interesting...I have a buddy who had one Mandate heifer, and he hasn't been real impressed with her either. I just happened to find this heifer at a dispersal sale and liked her. She isn't the thickest one in the bunch, but she seems to have enough performance and extra rib.

My review of the Objective bred cattle has been pretty mixed. I used a full to Objective a few years ago on some Simmental heifers as a calving ease option. The bull I used was 2T22, and he made a couple of really nice half blood females. One of them is one of my favorite young cows right now... So I started looking at Objective as a bigger EPD option with the same genetics, but we haven't had the luck with him that we had with his less popular full brother. I do think those bulls might be better suited on thicker made, rugged boned Simmental
females with plenty of thickness that might need softening up a little. And the performance comes after weaning...they're less impressive from birth to weaning time, but they're better as yearlings. If they stick around that long!

 

[Duncraggan]

I am not an angus breeder.  When I look for a bull I look at muscling first, I can not fault the bull you have in your picture!  To keep the post short, I will not elaborate on the good points!

As far as the set of legs goes.....!

If the world was flat as early explorers thought, posty hind legs would be fine!  My pastures are fairly flat, but, there is a steep side to all the pastures and I look for bulls with a bit of tracking when they walk, I am not a pig farmer!

Be careful of a bull with too post hind legs!

My cattle need to walk a lot and gait is an important factor in selection.  IMO your choice is an excellent one!

 

[vanridge]

OK, so my son was sticking to his guns with Cole Creek Cedar Ridge. He looked at all the bulls that were listed, and really enjoyed the info given but he was sticking with his own opinion. ( He really liked Conneally Concensus but the $ was too high for him.) Than just for fun, his uncle give him a Semex catalougue and now he's second guessing himself a little. He found 2 bulls that he REALLY likes in there. One is SAV Radiance 0801. The other is Vin-Mar Focus In 8847.  They both have some pretty big EPD numbers on them. Focus In 8847 is also in the top 10% for docility. (Radiance in at 75%) This is an important factor for him. His cow's performance #'s are
BW +3.3  WW +51(15%)  YW+89(15%)  MILK +17(55%)  TM+43(25%) The percentage in brackets are where she is in the Canadian Angus Association Herd. What are your thoughts and opinions and these bulls and if it was your cow, what would you do? He is focus is to breed a heifer calf that will stay in his herd for a long time. He's not looking for "show" genetics. He does want to make sure though that if its a bull calf, that its sellable. The picture is of his cow today, she calved March 1st.

 

[kiblercattle]

I think he should be happy with cedar ridge he should be a real cow maker. In the future I would look at vdar really windy 4097 he should do the same as cedar ridge with more growth if that matters to him.

 

[angusfarming]

Seeing that your in Canada this might be a problem maybe not... Last year we took a chance on a bull that went through the SAV sale in 2012 and went to Genex. He is a Iron Mtn out of a Bismark cow and the one cow we were able to breed to him last year had a smokin good heifer. The picture Genex has of him does him no justice. So if i were to throw out an idea it would be him. I also really like your sons approach on Cedar Ridge.

 

[Till-Hill]

vanridge, Sorry wasn't thinking on your PM but say have not seen the Cedar Ridge calves yet and I never got a phone call on them calving either! That's a good thing when you custom AI. Once this weather gets a tick better I will sneak over and see them but talked to Genex boys last week on Cedar Ridge and they love the calving ease on him but maybe other bulls will out perform them? If you want to reduce mature frame size and need an outcross calving ease bull I think he is awesome.