Black Noses On Shorthorn Cattle by Dr. Martin Lee

[mark tenenbaum]

All you have to do is look at the paintings of cattle in Holland from hundreds of years ago-these cattle were bred with the hienz 57 Teeswater area cattle  to begin what became the Shorthorn gene source -The Dutch cattle JMO-carried the distinct roan gene and looked like scraggly roans from 400-500 years ago-The white cattle dont have a specific history but certainly played a part in the development animals that became Shorthorns according to very old info I read in England along time ago-And to a couple scholarly old breeders we visited. They were thought to have either come with the Roman Conquerors-(the original Chis were white-went back to early Roman Empire-and were plenty crazy enough to run wild).Others thought maybe the Vikings introduced them-WHATEVER O0

 

[DLD]

May not have much if any bearing on the conversation, but back in 1981 I showed a Shorthorn steer from Deer Trail that had a black nose. He was a good one, was breed champion or reserve every time he was shown but one, before Tulsa. A prominent Shorthorn breeder here in Oklahoma classified Shorthorn steers at the Tulsa State Fair - he kicked him out “because of his black nose”.  Which might have been reasonable except his own kids were showing Shorthorn steers and the other 5 or 6 he kicked out didn’t have black noses, but had also been doing some winning. The small satisfaction was that he missed one, and his kids didn’t have Champion - still had reserve and the next one in sale order, though.

But I digress. Deer Trail did 100% stand behind the steer being purebred.  I used to be able to tell you his sire and maternal grandsire, seems like maybe Improver and/or Leader, but i’ve slept once or twice since then. Maybe the black nose was why he was a steer and not left a bull...

 

[beebe]

I once had a bull that was the top gaining bull at the Ideal bull test station that had a black nose.  He never sired one.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

And furthermore-If a really good filet minon comes from a non-certified pink nose Shorthorn with a black nose-Im still gonna eat  it  O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

May not have much if any bearing on the conversation, but back in 1981 I showed a Shorthorn steer from Deer Trail that had a black nose. He was a good one, was breed champion or reserve every time he was shown but one, before Tulsa. A prominent Shorthorn breeder here in Oklahoma classified Shorthorn steers at the Tulsa State Fair - he kicked him out “because of his black nose”.  Which might have been reasonable except his own kids were showing Shorthorn steers and the other 5 or 6 he kicked out didn’t have black noses, but had also been doing some winning. The small satisfaction was that he missed one, and his kids didn’t have Champion - still had reserve and the next one in sale order, though.

But I digress. Deer Trail did 100% stand behind the steer being purebred.  I used to be able to tell you his sire and maternal grandsire, seems like maybe Improver and/or Leader, but i’ve slept once or twice since then. Maybe the black nose was why he was a steer and not left a bull...  At that time he probably was sired by Guiness or possibly a Dynomite 80 who was a light roan dividend son-out of a Marvel cow-Deertrail Goliath was also a Guiness x Marvel  O0

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Black noses....OK.

White wild cattle is said to be part of the original stock that produced the improved Durham. Many literature describe it.
On middle 1700, Charles Colling used a half blood red Galloway bull that produces Foljambe...Galloway have black noses. It was described as Alloy blood.
Irish cattle have not pedigree accurate description, so, all options are open for Ayrshire, Holstein, Friesian and more.
Chianina have black noses and he is in some pedigrees.

So....black noses are on the genes....you must to decide to cut off or to keep in it.
I just cut off!

 

[DLD]

May not have much if any bearing on the conversation, but back in 1981 I showed a Shorthorn steer from Deer Trail that had a black nose. He was a good one, was breed champion or reserve every time he was shown but one, before Tulsa. A prominent Shorthorn breeder here in Oklahoma classified Shorthorn steers at the Tulsa State Fair - he kicked him out “because of his black nose”.  Which might have been reasonable except his own kids were showing Shorthorn steers and the other 5 or 6 he kicked out didn’t have black noses, but had also been doing some winning. The small satisfaction was that he missed one, and his kids didn’t have Champion - still had reserve and the next one in sale order, though.

But I digress. Deer Trail did 100% stand behind the steer being purebred.  I used to be able to tell you his sire and maternal grandsire, seems like maybe Improver and/or Leader, but i’ve slept once or twice since then. Maybe the black nose was why he was a steer and not left a bull...  At that time he probably was sired by Guiness or possibly a Dynomite 80 who was a light roan dividend son-out of a Marvel cow-Deertrail Goliath was also a Guiness x Marvel  O0

I found some old notes in my scrapbook. They said the steer was sired by Deerpark Leader 13th.  He was born in 1973, so that’s sure possible. If i knew the maternal side I didn’t make a note of that.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

That would be Dividend-the most influential Shorthorn from the 70s till today-Probably in terms of global influence-the farthest reaching Shorthorn bull in history O0

 

[DLD]

Shows what I know, I guess.  My family raised Polled Herefords, that was the only Shorthorn I ever had anything to do with until my kids started showing.  We’ve had a handful since, but to be honest I still don’t keep up with pedigrees. 

 

[idalee]

Charles Colling did,  indeed,  use a bull that was one-half Galloway.  In the year 1791,  a neighbor of Colling had two Galloway heifers that he contracted to be bred to the bull Bollingbroke (86).  One,  a red,  polled heifer had a roan  bull calf in the year 1792.  This bull was bred to an old cow who had not had a calf in two years which resulted in a bull Grandson of Bollingbroke (280) and born in the year 1794.    Grandson of Bollingbroke (280) was used moderately.    Foljambe (263) was born in 1787 and therefore could not have been sired by any one of these Galloway cross bulls!  Furthermore,  there has never been any mention in Shorthorn history books that Foljambe (263) had any Galloway breeding.
The article on Heritage Shorthorns deals with the Native Shorthorn,  which,  by definition does not have any of the crosses which have occurred in the past 75 years of Shorthorn breeding.  Black noses appearing on some of those crossed-up modern Shorthorns are not the same as the black  noses appearing historically in the Shorthorn breed. 

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Charles Colling did,  indeed,  use a bull that was one-half Galloway.  In the year 1791,  a neighbor of Colling had two Galloway heifers that he contracted to be bred to the bull Bollingbroke (86).  One,  a red,  polled heifer had a roan  bull calf in the year 1792.  This bull was bred to an old cow who had not had a calf in two years which resulted in a bull Grandson of Bollingbroke (280) and born in the year 1794.    Grandson of Bollingbroke (280) was used moderately.    Foljambe (263) was born in 1787 and therefore could not have been sired by any one of these Galloway cross bulls!  Furthermore,  there has never been any mention in Shorthorn history books that Foljambe (263) had any Galloway breeding.
The article on Heritage Shorthorns deals with the Native Shorthorn,  which,  by definition does not have any of the crosses which have occurred in the past 75 years of Shorthorn breeding.  Black noses appearing on some of those crossed-up modern Shorthorns are not the same as the black  noses appearing historically in the Shorthorn breed.

You is right.
I make confusion regarding the bulls name.
Sorry for my mistake.