Bulls

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Interesting article.  I would like to see the same "dot graph" applied to today's Angus, for example, compared to the 50's and early 60's genetics (or earlier).  It would be interesting to see what type of influence the Holsteins, Maines, or whatever else was used to get them big, had.  I assume a similar influence, though perhaps not as widespread or significant, would show up in Herefords.  I also assume the "dots" would be more widespread in the continental breeds, particularly those that have turned black over the past several generations.

Attached is Figure S15 from Decker et al 2012. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/13/606
The data set has samples from 1955 to about 2009.
The animals in red are from the Wye herd. http://agresearch.umd.edu/wye/angus
The animals in blue are related to EXT. The EXT family was the most heavily sampled family, thus it accounts for a large portion of the variation in the sample and is identified as the second principal component.

You may also be interested in http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1004254.

I like the policy of the American Hereford Association that every herd bull needs to be parentage tested in order for calves to be registered.

Very good read...but not understood well the results on the graphic. There are show differents genotypes, so Wye cattle is a closed herd with almost original population pre-new-type. The EXT line is of course very distinctive of Wye population as it isn't so inbred and closely related.

Do you means that EXT could show any outside interference as well rest of population?

Please, is only a question, not a way to be agressive with your comments! I really not understood where the graphic is related to pure lines or something like this.

Thanks, good work! Similar data with Herefords would to be good to see....but I always hope to see the names/register numers of animals involved on these tests....
Thank you again.

 

[knabe]

Jared, can u tell us which data point ext is and say some other bulls?

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Have special interest (curiosity) on ones that enter inside black mass....both red and blue ones. If you have available names will to be great.

 

[librarian]

I bet that red creeping into the black is Beaufort of Wye via Shearbrook Shoshone.  Beaufort is Fabron of Wye all over the place. Also Forever of Wye thru Candolier Forever 376. 
The black is maybe Rito stuff as opposed to Emulous.
Was there a picture of the Shorthorn data that I missed?

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I bet that red creeping into the black is Beaufort of Wye via Shearbrook Shoshone.  Beaufort is Fabron of Wye all over the place. Also Forever of Wye thru Candolier Forever 376. 
The black is maybe Rito stuff as opposed to Emulous.
Was there a picture of the Shorthorn data that I missed?

The blacks dots among red ones are Emulous or Rito ones?

 

[librarian]

No, there is no Rito or Emulous in Wye as far as I know, but there is Ballindalloch thru Puck of Wickwire and there is Dalmeny as in Gaird of Dalmeny.  So all those Bedraggled Maids etc are probably related to Bemindful Maid so there would be some material in common from the mainstream.
Ballot of Belladrum goes to Ballindalloch and Dalemny and he gets into the mainstram.  I am calling the black dots the mainstream.
But, I meant the red dots creeping into the black, not the black into the red. I am just guessing, anyway.  I don't really know or understand the graphic that well.
Where is Earl Marshall in all this?
I am being evicted from the computer, sorry this is kind of disorganized.

 

[vandewalle]

sjleppert18,

    Could you please e-mail me your contact information.  I have a shorthorn breeder in Nebraska that would like to talk to you about semen.  Thank you,  [email protected]

 

[Duncraggan]

DMH Private Selection and DMH Minn Max Leader 2014 calves.

Good looking calves there sjleppert18!

 

[knabe]

Dang nice bull.

 

[HerefordGuy]

Jared, can u tell us which data point ext is and say some other bulls?

EXT is the bottom right corner. If we dropped 40 of EXT's relatives from the analysis, he would no longer stand out. It is simply an issue of sampling (not evidence of mixture).

 

[HerefordGuy]

I bet that red creeping into the black is Beaufort of Wye via Shearbrook Shoshone.  Beaufort is Fabron of Wye all over the place. Also Forever of Wye thru Candolier Forever 376. 
The black is maybe Rito stuff as opposed to Emulous.
Was there a picture of the Shorthorn data that I missed?

From the Wye webpage:
"It was reopened for a brief period to half of the herd in order to complete a research project. "
I think this is where most of the red dots that overlap with the black dots come from.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I bet that red creeping into the black is Beaufort of Wye via Shearbrook Shoshone.  Beaufort is Fabron of Wye all over the place. Also Forever of Wye thru Candolier Forever 376. 
The black is maybe Rito stuff as opposed to Emulous.
Was there a picture of the Shorthorn data that I missed?

From the Wye webpage:
"It was reopened for a brief period to half of the herd in order to complete a research project. "
I think this is where most of the red dots that overlap with the black dots come from.

Yes, I read it and got same opinion. To check it, only making a pedigree analyses for check if red dots are from "outcrossed" genetics.

Good point regarding EXT, not is a confirmation that some infusion occur, but also cann't tell the inverse. So, outcross with other breeds are know on Aberdeen Angus and Herefords, same that not officially. This is impossible to change and not have wish to do it. But as curiosity, I would like to know what bulls where outcrossed and with what breeds.

Great article...a very interest matter...like much!

 

[oakview]

From the Angus junior heifer show held at the Iowa State Fair grounds, I believe in 1976, a young man I knew from eastern Iowa won a class with a Capone (Fullblood Maine) daughter.  She blood typed "typical" Angus.  He sold her, at the show, to a noted Angus breeder from Illinois and asked them if they wanted the Angus papers, Maine papers, or both.  They took the Angus.  Not a story that was related to me by someone else, I was there and saw it.  The young man was quite proud of himself and took home a handsome check.  You asked what was infused, this is one that I know of.

Was it the early 90's when the Hereford Association started getting tough with the lines that were throwing gray baldy calves when crossed with Angus cows?  I can't remember the genetics behind that.

 

[librarian]

Related, but not exactly. Thought I would post these since I was digging around and will inevitably forget where references are and what the --- I was thinking about.
I am going to find out what the Wye infusion was, if I can.
A Project to Produce Calves from Historical Angus Bulls  http://www.ag.iastate.edu/farms/06reports/mcnay/AProjecttoProduceCalves.pdf

EVALUATION OF 54 YEARS OF LOUISIANA BULL TESTING, AND SNP
AFFECTING GROWTH AND PERFORMANCE OF YEARLING BULLS ON
A FORAGE PERFORMANCE BULL TEST  (1958-2011)
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-04042013-184850/unrestricted/howardthesis.pdf

 

[librarian]

okay, I have this from Morgan Hartman, whom I call the Wyecopedaia.

"It was opened up in the early 80's. I believe ps power play and paramount ambush were two of the bulls used.

All of the animals conceived from those matings are gone. They were sold off I believe as commercial cattle.

There are a handful of bulls from which Wye Angus has semen available that were produced in that project. They are identifiable on the semen roster because their registered names start with the prefix UMF as opposed to the UMF coming later in the name. Checking those pedigrees should tell you which bulls were used.

I believe the names of the bulls used also appear in the book, Breed of Noble Bloods."

 

[huntaway]

Very nice looking cattle. The white bull looks great what are his Epd's. Red bull calf from a white bull? or is there some roan in there.

Not sure I totally understand what the graphs are showing. How would something like the lowline/highline angus look. Points in the same area because they where from the same genetic base or separated points because of different selection?

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Related, but not exactly. Thought I would post these since I was digging around and will inevitably forget where references are and what the --- I was thinking about.
I am going to find out what the Wye infusion was, if I can.
A Project to Produce Calves from Historical Angus Bulls  http://www.ag.iastate.edu/farms/06reports/mcnay/AProjecttoProduceCalves.pdf

EVALUATION OF 54 YEARS OF LOUISIANA BULL TESTING, AND SNP
AFFECTING GROWTH AND PERFORMANCE OF YEARLING BULLS ON
A FORAGE PERFORMANCE BULL TEST  (1958-2011)
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-04042013-184850/unrestricted/howardthesis.pdf

Good articles...liked one about historical bulls....show us that some old genetics could to be useful today and that isn't so different on performance that modern bulls.

Good...keep posting similar material.

 

[knabe]

How do rations and additives differ from different era's including additives like rumensin etc.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

okay, I have this from Morgan Hartman, whom I call the Wyecopedaia.

"It was opened up in the early 80's. I believe ps power play and paramount ambush were two of the bulls used.

All of the animals conceived from those matings are gone. They were sold off I believe as commercial cattle.

There are a handful of bulls from which Wye Angus has semen available that were produced in that project. They are identifiable on the semen roster because their registered names start with the prefix UMF as opposed to the UMF coming later in the name. Checking those pedigrees should tell you which bulls were used.

I believe the names of the bulls used also appear in the book, Breed of Noble Bloods."

Own some semen of Pinnacle of Wye...no UMF on there.... ;D

 

[SJcattle]

This is a really interesting thread, thanks for all the pictures everyone's posted as well as the graphs and articles. I think why a lot of people are reverting back to these older native genetics is because of what has happened within the shorthorn breed. If you look at those older bulls, they are stout, they carry that quarter down and appear very thick straight through. There are individuals like that today, however, in my experience there are a lot of cattle being kept as breeding stock that lack that muscling and correctness the breed once had. I have some older semen I'm sitting on as well to use for embryo's, in hopes that I can infuse more of that thickness back into my own herd. Just my two cents, I might be out to lunch though. 

Thanks again for everyone that's posted, definitely a neat thread to read through.