CA, CDC, polio

[Sir Loin]

Re:

He said "ANTIBODIES" not ANITBIOTICS.

Oh my, I did a boo boo. Thanks for bring that to my attention.
Dam auto speller, but I will take the blame for not proof reading better, now that I know I am under the microscope. How was my spelling, punctuation and grammar?
But it still doesn't change what Lucy_P stated.
SL

 

[knabe]

Sir soy, you can't even stand the scrutiny on your spelling, yet you want scrutiny on everything you bring up, how can we possibly take you seriously.

Perhaps you can go file some files for PETA or the splc.

Your estrogen treatment from all the soy you eat is starting to shine through. Be careful, most soy products are transgenic. You might turn into a caterpillar.

 

[Sir Loin]

Here is a pic of a receipt from my feed supplier.
Please note the CAUTION on the right side.
Why do you think that CAUTION is on there?
What is wrong with feeding corn gluten feed, aka ethanol by-product to dairy cattle?
And if it should not be fed to dairy cattle, why is it OK to feed it to cows or calves in a cow/calf operation?


FYI: I am not making a statement. I am asking you to explain this to me.
SL

 

[MCC]

Here is a pic of a receipt from my feed supplier.
Please note the CAUTION on the right side.
Why do you think that CAUTION is on there?
What is wrong with feeding corn gluten feed, aka ethanol by-product to dairy cattle?
And if it should not be fed to dairy cattle, why is it OK to feed it to cows or calves in a cow/calf operation?


FYI: I am not making a statement. I am asking you to explain this to me.
SL

From the looks of all the zero's it didn't cost anything so I wouldn't complain! If it did I guess I WOULDN"T FEED IT TO DAIRY CATTLE! You HAVE BEEN WARNED! (argue)

 

[CAB]

Did you notice that this is just a waver printed up by a trucking company?

 

[Sir Loin]

Here is a better pic of their invoice print out, with all the products they handle.
They also run a feedlot operation.
Note the 6th one down is corn gluten (Staley ) That's A. E, Staley mfg. co.
SL

 

[knabe]

I heard once, that feeding too much styrofoam to rats can cause cancer. 

There isnt a chance in heck that a rat would EVER eat enough styrofoam to cause it to die from cancer, yet it needs to be determined.

http://beef.osu.edu/library/gluten.html

Summary: Wet and dry corn gluten feed are valuable by-products for cattle feeding operations. Proper analyses and supplementation will assist cattle producers in using variable batches of corn gluten feed.


For people like sir soy, DO NOT FEED CERTAIN FEEDS ABOVE 30% or you will have problems like dostillers grains, and pretty much any feed that sir soy has used that deviates from a normal feed ration.

Perhaps sir soys real motivation is to pump the internet with problems to advocate for a license to feed cattle.

Perhaps sir soy should be prosecuted for animal cruelty and be banned for life from owning or having anything to do with cattle.

 

[OH Breeder]

Re:

He said "ANTIBODIES" not ANITBIOTICS.

Oh my, I did a boo boo. Thanks for bring that to my attention.
Dam auto speller, but I will take the blame for not proof reading better, now that I know I am under the microscope. How was my spelling, punctuation and grammar?
But it still doesn't change what Lucy_P stated.
SL

You seem to manipuate everything else, I WANTED to make sure you understood Anitbioitics and Anitbodies are NOT THE SAME Thing! As far as that goes, Bacterial Septicemia is also not caused by polio. Bacteria is the hint and the calf was blind from the infection is what i would summize from the statement by a vet. I don't care if you spell or punctuate. Just keep the facts straight. Passive maternal immunity is not the same as administering anitibiotics. If the calf had weaken immunity or lack of immunity from its mother it contracted a bacteria. I AM NOT A VET but a health care provider. I am not practice vet medicine but trying to explain what you  seem to  link between some feed grain and blindness from Antibiotics?

 

[CAB]

  What is your theory behind the 100s of thousands of cattle that are fed DDGs and never do get sick?

 

[BTDT]

And to ask a similar question CAB, How does sir loin explain the calves that get polio type symptoms that do NOT get fed DDG's? 

Example: Last year, I had a 10 week old calf that went down suddenly and had polio symptoms (Down, stretched neck, blindness, grinding teeth).  Vet came out and used the "polio" word.  Here is the catch. Absolutely ORGANICLY raised and absolutely NO DDG's. None. All this cow and calf had to eat was green grass and hay. So, sir loin, explain away..

And I again I ask you:  Real name, real location, lawsuit topic, and your ax to grind.  You seem to be very opinionated except when it comes to real details.  (By the way, where do you get your free feed?  I will give them directions to my place!!)

By the way- If you are so concerned about DDG's why are you still feeding them? Weak in resolve? Or just looking for a lawsuit to solve your problems?

 

[Sir Loin]

CAB,
Re:

What is your theory behind the 100s of thousands of cattle that are fed DDGs and never do get sick?

Good question.
Those that don't get sick most likely are being fed DDGs from the food grade side of the plant. Those that get sick are fed from the industrial grade side of the plant.
And those that get sick may also be from a duel purpose plant, which makes both food and industrial products.
Here is a list of such duel purpose plants where both food and industrial grade DDGs comes from.
Please note: sugar/starch is food grade and comes under FDA regulations.
Ethanol is industrial grade and does NOT come under FDA regulations.
Nor does industrial grade come under “truth in labeling “ laws. Which is why they are allowed to get away with NOT listing the sulfur ( a necessary mineral ) content on the bag tag or furnishing an analysis sheet when bought in bulk.
Ethanol Producer Magazine
http://www.ethanolproducer.com/plants/listplants/US/Existing/Sugar-Starch/

Plus they may not have been feed in a high enough concentration or for an extended period of time to be lethal or make symptoms obvious to the unsuspected.
SL

 

[knabe]

How many cattle are we talking about and who are these people that can afford to kill all these cattle?

 

[Sir Loin]

Knabe,
Another good question.
But this time, I'm not sure I have a satisfactory answer as there is no Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) for cattle, as the CDC has for humans.

How many cattle are we talking about and who are these people that can afford to kill all these cattle?

My answer to that question is,  the only thing I can do is to give you the indicators that leads me to believe that the actual number is higher then most cattlemen expect.

A. feedlots have threatened to back charge for sick and/or dead animals.
B. The steady decline in US cattle inventory
C. The high numbers of sick, downers and dead cows and calves being reported on this board and CT etc.
D. Vets not being able to successfully treat sick cows and calves and go out of large animal service.
E. Necropsy reports that fail to identify the cause.
F. Case after case of reported meat recalls, downers, cancer-eye and hoof loss being rejected at slaughter houses.
G. Reported outbreaks of diseases cattle should be able to ward off on their own, but can not.
H. Ever growing demand for both prescription and over the counter medications, none of which seem to work.
Re:

who are these people that can afford to kill all these cattle?

I don't think there are many, unless they are looking for a tax write off or have a darn good day job.
When your herd conception rate is only 80% and your calf mortality rate including aborted is over 20% or more. And your downer/death rate is 10% or more, per year, I don't know how they could stay in business, without government subsidies or  Willie Nelson's help.

The above numbers are from my personal observation and field tests and may actually be higher.

IMO, the only way to be profitable in the cattle business and stay in the cattle business today is to run a closed herd and feed nothing but grass and hay and mineral BLOCKS in the winter and salt BLOCKS in the summer.

SL

 

[knabe]

Knabe,
Another good question.
But this time, I'm not sure I have a satisfactory answer NO KIDDING as there is no Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) for cattle, as the CDC has for humans.

How many cattle are we talking about and who are these people that can afford to kill all these cattle?

My answer to that question is,  the only thing I can do is to give you the indicators that leads me to believe that the actual number is higher then most cattlemen expect. Of course you do, you are not interested in facts, only emotion.

A. feedlots have threatened to back charge for sick and/or dead animals. for a variety of ailments
B. The steady decline in US cattle inventory stupid
C. The high numbers of sick, downers and dead cows and calves being reported on this board and CT etc. stupid
D. Vets not being able to successfully treat sick cows and calves and go out of large animal service. stupid
E. Necropsy reports that fail to identify the cause. stupid
F. Case after case of reported meat recalls, downers, cancer-eye and hoof loss being rejected at slaughter houses. stupid
G. Reported outbreaks of diseases cattle should be able to ward off on their own, but can not. stupid
H. Ever growing demand for both prescription and over the counter medications, none of which seem to work. stupid
Re:

who are these people that can afford to kill all these cattle?

I don't think there are many no kidding, unless they are looking for a tax write off or have a darn good day job.
When your herd conception rate is only 80% and your calf mortality rate including aborted is over 20% or more you are out of business. And your downer/death rate is 10% or more, per year you are out of business, I don't know how they could stay in business, without government subsidies or  Willie Nelson's help. they don't

The above numbers are from my personal observation and field tests and may actually be higher. personal observations are called anecdotal evidence and have absolutely no business in science. you are simply a tarot card reader. do you believe in sasquatch, loch ness monster? your whole life is consumed by conspiracy theories and you are a laughingstock.  i hear OT is looking for a relationship. he's the only person i know who is more paranoid about nothing than you.

IMO, the only way to be profitable in the cattle business and stay in the cattle business today is to run a closed herd and feed nothing but grass and hay and mineral BLOCKS in the winter and salt BLOCKS in the summer. then do it and quit using scare tactics which are totally unfounded and embrace the beef industry as a whole instead of constantly running it down. by the way, how do you intend to acquire the resources necessary for your plan?  you must have a large benefactor, a massive inheritance, existing infrastructure with an excellent pipeline including slaughter facilities like the petaluma plant that will re-open.  you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

SL

 

[Lucky_P]

I'll ask you not to be using my words to insinuate that I've agreed with anything you've posted/said.

You posted a photo of a calf with white eyes and excessive tearing.  Photo quality is/was not sufficient to do more than list the most likely conditions - 1) keratoconjunctivitis, with possible viral(IBR), bacterial (Moraxella, etc.) or mycoplasma etiologies 2) Ophthalmitis, as an indicator of neonatal septicemia, possibly due to failure of passive transfer of maternal antibodies. 
NONE of which have any connection whatsoever to polioencephalomalacia, ddg, cgf, or sulfur.

 

[Sir Loin]

Lucky_P
Re:

I'll ask you not to be using my words to insinuate that I've agreed with anything you've posted/said.

Excuse me, but you joined my discussion on several occasions and boards, therefor your comments are subject to being used in further discussions. Which you have now stated again and I will comment on your statement again. You do know this is a public board, right?

Re:

possibly due to failure of passive transfer of maternal antibodies.

I agree, and I add, “ PEM is a possible cause of the “  failure of passive transfer of maternal antibodies “, due to the cow's compromised immune system caused by excess sulfur intake.
As I know the cows, and the herd history, that produced this calf, it is my opinion it was most likely the result of PEM from the result of feeding an excess amount of DDG & DDGS. In the diet.
SL

 

[knabe]

i feel a banning coming.


you are out of line.