CABANA -PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE CATTLE ARE-SHORTHORNS HERE NEED THESE GENETICS

[mark tenenbaum]

I found this video of the Palermo show-in the worst possible conditions-this small group of Shorthorns are almost ideal in phenotype for commercially oriented cattle-I HAVE NOT SEEN A BETTER OVERALL GROUP OR LEAST TO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO PRODUCE SINCE I GOT BACK IN SHORTHORNS IN 1990. From what i see-although they have been fed-THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVENT BEEN THROUGH THE TYPE OF PROGRAMS YOU SEE IN IOWA AND ELSEWHERE-WE NEED THESE GENETICS-EVEN THOUGH THE SHORTHORNS HERE IN THE US  ARE RAPIDLY IMPROVING- THESE ARE THE BEST CONVENTIONAL UNADULTERATED GENETICS (EG NO LARGE outside influence for the few remaining purists) Ive seen anywhere on the web and Ive been all over the world  The second place white bull approx 41:46 (the judge needs a seeing eye dog)is really my kind for blue roans incredible bone like I used to see in the 60s when I showed poneys- Last is a video of a good heifer breaking the bank at thier sa,e she was in the second class -REALLY GOOD NON CLUBBY HEIFER GOOD AS THEY COME UP HERE-LOVE THE WAY SHES MADE ALL THE KINGS MEN (KING SULLIVANS?) COULDNT IMPROVE HER-AND SHES A GEEENBEAN COMPARED TO BEING UP THEREhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnpgLukofAYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnpgLukofAY  O0    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zsDAYHBmBg

 

[knabe]

They should stop fitting their tails. Cattle don't like it. It's distracting and really just stupid.

 

[GoWyo]

What did they do to the tails?  Every one of these heifers are pretty agitated about it.  Nice heifers otherwise though.

 

[shortyjock89]

They should stop fitting their tails. Cattle don't like it. It's distracting and really just stupid.

Agree 100%. We do very little with fitting tails and everyone ends up happier. I've never been beat because we didn't use a whole can of glue on a switch.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Makes sense to me-these cattle are obviously not fed nor fitted like up here-But I think they are very useful looking-I want naturally thick cattle with guts and rib-that don't melt raising a calf-That's what I saw in the videos-In a pros hands (like Olson) people would know they were there at any show O0

 

[shortyjock89]

I'd take that third heifer in the drive today and make a run at KC with her. They're flat good and I've thought that for a decade.

Steve French needs to get one of his donors down there to produce a bull for up here. I'd do my Ruby to him and rake in the money.

Don't be fooled though, they get them plenty fat for Palermo.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I'm not-but they try and get cow-calf pairs plenty fat for the Jr Nationals etc up here TOO-they pale in comparison

 

[shortyjock89]

The difference being that a pair is likely to win the show there not the case here. The female in my profile pic would have easily won the cow calf pair show at jr nationals and in all honesty would belong in the top 5 but it just wont happen so instead of getting her ready for a show she won't win, we flushed her and made money instead.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

The difference being that a pair is likely to win the show there not the case here. The female in my profile pic would have easily won the cow calf pair show at jr nationals and in all honesty would belong in the top 5 but it just wont happen so instead of getting her ready for a show she won't win, we flushed her and made money instead./// The 2017 pairs I saw champ-reserve at the Jr nationals are nowhere near as stout and ez fleshing as the ones I keep seeing down there-And they DEFINITELY didnt come of grass to the Nat JR Show-they were FED O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hey Olson-how about these-I mean you gotta respect the phenotypes-pretty much what I wish I had to breed with-No Maine no clubby-man Id love to inject some of this blood and they appear to have enough performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADk655JlJE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hlompaYRH0

 

[shortyjock89]

Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly about using these genetics up here.

I worry that they are fairly coarse jointed and have some issues that manifest up high in general as a group. I think it's a product of them being fed hard. I haven't seen any of them in person so I won't pick on them hard. But I also will have some reservations about them being vastly superior to our cattle until we get some more being born here.

Steve French is selling choice of 3 daughters of his Argentinian donor cow. She is absolutely gorgeous and could be massively influential if she hits it big even once.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Vastly superior to our SHOW cattle is a stretch plain and simple, till they melt. More commercially oriented "real world" "easy keeping" most likely "easier calving" are certainly adjectives-descriptive statements THAT STEVIE WONDER could see in the way the cattle are made and the make up of the calves at side.I might agree on a couple but certainly not all  the ones led around the show ring in the videos eg joint and higher problems-having just seen the 2017 Nat Jr Show champs -these are much more honest and certainly light years behind in fitted "example" cattle-much less what they have injested.  its also a pain dealing with the massive infusions of chatter in the various following videos. With the skill and supplements up here-it would CLEARLY be different story if the same animals were developed in Illinois or Dunlap. as in "cut to the cattle" with all the chatter.HOWEVER-the cattle they show out in the pens and commercials in the pastures and the 3 way Shorthorn Hereford Angus commercial crosses shown (if I may be so rude) in the NEXT thread are as loose jointed and correct as anything Ive seen in awhile,please view in your travels. There are some extremely correct genetics up here-maybe a little Old School in some cases-that would really make some cattle with those  genetics . I even  have a bull I bred that we used long ago at Deertrail  that I feel would really work-and although he was born in 1997-his daughters LIKE HIS DAM and one maternal sister we lost in a trailor fall at 15 last year-were very long lived and i believe DTR may still have a 1999 daughter still alive,.Along with many grandchildren by thier CE Moneyman bull-who is out of another 1999 daughter. O0

 

[cowboy_nyk]

I've spoke about it before on here but I have some experience with the Argentinian Angus blood.  We used quite a bit of semen of a bull that was brought to Canada as an embryo from Argentina, Blevin Tres Marias Patron.  We used him for the same reasons you cite, Rib shape, fleshing ease, muscle shape, and moderate size.  I would say, 5 years down the road from the experiment, that it was a worthwhile venture.  The daughters and granddaughter are consistently rounder made and bigger ribbed and are certainly easier fleshing.  The cows stay slick and shiny year round and are great milkers.  Like Olson says, there are a few structural quirks that you need to weed out but I think the Argentinian type has something to offer us even if it is only in small doses.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Angus I saw on the videos looked pretty good to me-although I;m no expert. As far as the horns-I would have some ideas about what I'd breed them to-I think overall they are maybe more different in type from an American Shorthorn than the Angus are  from the 2 countries. JMO-at least from the pictures-The Canadian Angus would be right up there for me. O0

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

They should stop fitting their tails. Cattle don't like it. It's distracting and really just stupid.

Fitting isn't the point....people how knows cattle not see to fitting.
I always take the hand on cattle, so, fitting is not necessary for me.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Makes sense to me-these cattle are obviously not fed nor fitted like up here-But I think they are very useful looking-I want naturally thick cattle with guts and rib-that don't melt raising a calf-That's what I saw in the videos-In a pros hands (like Olson) people would know they were there at any show O0

They are well fed...can be sure. But the excess fed is being left behind.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Angus I saw on the videos looked pretty good to me-although I;m no expert. As far as the horns-I would have some ideas about what I'd breed them to-I think overall they are maybe more different in type from an American Shorthorn than the Angus are  from the 2 countries. JMO-at least from the pictures-The Canadian Angus would be right up there for me. O0

Both are well fed, but Aberdeen Angus are more fed than Shorthorn!

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Well. Argentina had until some years ago some different lines from USA/Canada. Already some 8 years ago, some Waukaru was used there as well as JSG Capiche that is producing very well here. With some outstanding heifers this year on Palermo.
I think that the difference on cattle shape is first due some old, close locally lines. Of course we found some Tribune, Clark influence on third or fourth generations on these cattle, but the strong background shaped by massive use of Lincoln Red inserted on Argentinian Shorthorn a "different" eye appeal, specially on block bodies and fine heads.
Finally, the other important factor is the final market, that is the cattle shaper around the world....Shorthorns in South America are made for grass! So they must to born without assistance, prospere at grass and finnish at grass at so early time....making it smaller without lost a good carcass weight and a good gain daily .

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

A Capiche Daughter on Palermo 2017.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Another fine lady....no USA blood until her fourth generation...were we find Tribune and Clarck