CABANA -PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE CATTLE ARE-SHORTHORNS HERE NEED THESE GENETICS

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Canada has a very good Shorthorn, one of my preferred in world....but...sorry...Argentinian Shorthorn are the best in world....UNTIL  NOW!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Senior Cabana Muchos gracias para los pictures-Las Vacas y Machos es muy dificle de vu malo en todo los pieces los vacas no muy bueno-premero en todo los Vus de Raza Shorthorn-para mi type de gusto.-THEMS DAM GOOD CATTLE BUDDY-AND AT LEAST UP YONDER HERE IN THE LAND UV OUTDOOR PLUMBING US HILLBILLYS WOULD SURE USE ONE OF THEM GOOD BULLS-KING SULLIVAN'S DEAL MIGHT GET A SLIGHT AWAKENING PERHAPS EVEN A RUN AT THE THRONE IF WE COULD MESS WITH THESE PHENOTYPES O0 I have too many ideas and not enough pictures churning since I started looking these are just a couple  https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?BullId=4254&bulltype=5

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I didnt get all the conversation-but in one of the videos a breeder spoke of enbryos from Canada-99.999999999 Percent bet that JITS breeding was in there-Id like your take on these ones JIT- maybe a little smaller framed  for Canada-but they are likeable NO? O0

 

[shortybreeder]

Mark, I recognize the first 3 bulls you posted picture's of, but who is the last one?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hes a maine but believe it or not EZ calving and the sons-daughters are not that extreme I cant get pics up of the buls I like but heres one of mine  proven really good cows from him-this is as a calf-and Steve Frenches Final Four bull-Red Reward x Sonny x a VERY GOOD IF NOT BEST CANADIAN COW FAMILY Then NBS Low Rider -I feel that he would really work-and he has some old breeding along with Red Ryder Drive-certainly one of the Unique Shorthorns (?) ever in this country.The last picture is a heifer I like very much-SHE IS sired by a Studer bull STUDERS PRECISION  out of Roanoke Flashback-X trump x old Shorthorn. Flashback was sired by TPS Coronet Leader 21 (proud jazz sire) and out of an RPS Tribune x OLD breeding cow: Tribune and Leader 21st probably work better with Argentine cattle overall than most anything-NOT ONLY DO ALL THE PROGENY OUT OF THAT BULL RESEMBLE HER-SHE AND THE OTHERS RESEMBLE YOUR CATTLE MORE THAN ANYTHING I THINK I HAVE SEEN ANYWHERE-if you see how Capiche worked-this may be the best bull anywhere to compliment your type of cattle.As you can see-I dont follow anyone just what I like along with pedigree "reasons"-but phenotypes are phenotypes-and I think you can see a strong resemblence O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Well. Argentina had until some years ago some different lines from USA/Canada. Already some 8 years ago, some Waukaru was used there as well as JSG Capiche that is producing very well here. With some outstanding heifers this year on Palermo.
I think that the difference on cattle shape is first due some old, close locally lines. Of course we found some Tribune, Clark influence on third or fourth generations on these cattle, but the strong background shaped by massive use of Lincoln Red inserted on Argentinian Shorthorn a "different" eye appeal, specially on block bodies and fine heads.
Finally, the other important factor is the final market, that is the cattle shaper around the world....Shorthorns in South America are made for grass! So they must to born without assistance, prospere at grass and finnish at grass at so early time....making it smaller without lost a good carcass weight and a good gain daily .//// Old PICTURE but you can see the resemblence

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Not really sure if Tribune did a good job in Argentina.
We see it in many pedigrees, but think that only for lacking options at that time and, due him was imported to ARG, so he must to be used!
SHO on ARG at that years were small and newtype was the order in cattle word, so...Tribune was an option.
To me, today, the best argentinian SHO cattle are not related to Tribune.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

That was a long time ago and the options were about the same every where-I remember seeing a bull picture of the champion at Palermo-sired by him-may have been 1990-At least better than the Ayatollah garbage of the day.It would stand to reason that the Proud Jazz and Canadian would work on those cattle-especially the mix of older unadulterated and really quite unique blood-along with Lincoln Reds if they were made right. Lately alot of the ones in England look more like salers to mein the pictures-BUT there are also some very good looking Reds over there too.In type-and by pedigree-I would wonder how the Red Reward deals like Red Sensation would work-the dams of those bulls albeit a little harddoing are very pretty fronted with enough length to offset creating course calves that are too short.O0

 

[oakview]

The white heifer pictured earlier is an exact replica of a Leader 21st heifer I showed in 1970.  She was the first state fair champion I had, won the FFA show and was second in the open show.  The photo I have of her as a cow could easily pass for a mature photo of the heifer in this thread.

 

[Duncraggan]

Canada has a very good Shorthorn, one of my preferred in world....but...sorry...Argentinian Shorthorn are the best in world....UNTIL  NOW!

We were seriously interested in South American genetics and enquired to our import agent about getting them over. Apparently there is a diplomatic spat between South Africa and Argentina/Brazil due to the export of Bonsmara genetics from South Africa and the channels are definitely closed!!!
Cattle look to be the correct type for us though, we have settled for some equally good North American genetics in the mean time.

 

[Duncraggan]

Not really sure if Tribune did a good job in Argentina.
We see it in many pedigrees, but think that only for lacking options at that time and, due him was imported to ARG, so he must to be used!
SHO on ARG at that years were small and newtype was the order in cattle word, so...Tribune was an option.
To me, today, the best argentinian SHO cattle are not related to Tribune.

This is a very pertinent observation CSI, the same has happened to me!
Often the best genetics are right under your nose, bulls don't become better the further they travel to your farm, just as the highest priced female in your herd isn't the best in your herd!
You need a paid advisor/consultant to point out the obvious to you, I find I am too sentimental. Maybe it is more of a case that you don't want to admit you over-paid for an animal!

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Canada has a very good Shorthorn, one of my preferred in world....but...sorry...Argentinian Shorthorn are the best in world....UNTIL  NOW!

We were seriously interested in South American genetics and enquired to our import agent about getting them over. Apparently there is a diplomatic spat between South Africa and Argentina/Brazil due to the export of Bonsmara genetics from South Africa and the channels are definitely closed!!!
Cattle look to be the correct type for us though, we have settled for some equally good North American genetics in the mean time.

Diplomatic and economic bans making a good job for cattle business (ironic!)
Argentina have some great cattle, ease to get it on farm and also some in show.
Uruguay also with some good specimens.
Brazil, not sure if will get the same quality as both previous neighbours!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Can semen or embryos be shipped from Argentina or Uruguay to the US? O0

 

[justintime]

I didnt get all the conversation-but in one of the videos a breeder spoke of enbryos from Canada-99.999999999 Percent bet that JITS breeding was in there-Id like your take on these ones JIT- maybe a little smaller framed  for Canada-but they are likeable NO? O0

I have wanted to go to Argentina for the past several years. The cattle I see winning the Palermo show don't appear to be fed much more than some that win here in North America. A very good friend of mine has made many trips down to this show, and each year he says the cattle in the shows are fatter than most he has seen shown here. He also says the Shorthorns are too small framed down there but the Angus are some of the best he has ever seen. A couple other people I know have toured Shorthorn herds in Argentina and they tell me the cattle they see down there are one size too small for them. That's why I really want to get down there and see for myself. That is about the only way I will know.  Many of the Shorthorns in Argentina have some Lincoln Red in their background as well.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I like the way they are made, and wish I could see what outside genetics might do.. There are some larger bulls up here that are still thick and deep enough to use.Leroy might not be tall enough but sure is made right-So are the  bull at Promised land in Montana and the full blood maine I pictured.Waukaru has a couple of very large growth deals-albeit different looking-wonder if they used Patent down there. O0

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Many of the Shorthorns in Argentina have some Lincoln Red in their background as well.
[/quote]

ALL Shorthorns in South AMerica show LR on background....ALL!

 

[knabe]

but the Angus are some of the best he has ever seen.

there are some clones of anchor or emblazon down there i think.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

And the Lincoln Reds are very thick,easy calving,high milking cattle-There is a bull up here called GB Daybreak Express thats still in regular use 20 years later-and for along time was mainly used on clubby cattle due to his low BWS and the fact his females milked. He was sired by Byland Dazzler  out of a Lincoln Red x Maine cow-And hes STILL a good bull. These are a couple daughters from around ten years or so ago. Goddard cattle has a 2-3 year old MonoployxDaybreak daughter as a promotion bull called Real Deal,he keeps ahowing up here and there in pedigrees.The third bull is a bad picture of Daybreak express-he WAS NOT A PUD. Dale on here also has a herd bull out of his full sister (I believe)-Last picture is Dales Bull -calving ease functional bull from a performance NOT SHOW herd. O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

And they are very thick,easy calving,high milking cattle-There is a bull up here called GB Daybreak Express thats still in regular use 20 years later-and for along time was mainly used on clubby cattle due to his low BWS and the fact his females milked. He was out of a Lincoln Red x Maine cow-And hes STILL a good bull. These are a couple daughters from around ten years or so ago. Goddard cattle has a 2-3 year old MonoployxDaybreak daughter as a promotion bull called Real Deal,he keeps ahowing up here and there in pedigrees.The third bull is a bad picture of him-he WAS NOT A PUD. Dale on here also has a herd bull out of his full sister (I believe)-HES in the last picture-calving ease functional bull from a performance NOT SHOW herd. O0

 

[beebe]

I didnt get all the conversation-but in one of the videos a breeder spoke of enbryos from Canada-99.999999999 Percent bet that JITS breeding was in there-Id like your take on these ones JIT- maybe a little smaller framed  for Canada-but they are likeable NO? O0

I have wanted to go to Argentina for the past several years. The cattle I see winning the Palermo show don't appear to be fed much more than some that win here in North America. A very good friend of mine has made many trips down to this show, and each year he says the cattle in the shows are fatter than most he has seen shown here. He also says the Shorthorns are too small framed down there but the Angus are some of the best he has ever seen. A couple other people I know have toured Shorthorn herds in Argentina and they tell me the cattle they see down there are one size too small for them. That's why I really want to get down there and see for myself. That is about the only way I will know.  Many of the Shorthorns in Argentina have some Lincoln Red in their background as well.

Too small framed sounds just right to me, maybe we should have a tour to South America this winter.