Calves coming up crippled after summer pasture

[kkomma]

Have any of you had calves come with stiff joints after they went out to pasture? I have only had it a couple times but is it a late THC characteristic?

 

[obie105]

Is there a pond? Had several one year pull muscle and hurt themselves wading in mud when the water went down.

 

[Freddy]

Any chance of navel ill.....or infection in navel ...

 

[kkomma]

Calves drink from an irrigation canal, so it's a great question. We have had a couple do this, born in march sent to pasture in June and in those months of summer a few of their joints swell and lock up. We have another breeder near us that has the same issue with different cows but similar clubby bulls. The knee joints, front or rear lock up. There is swelling around the joints. Is this a different defect or does naval ill present itself months after the cord falls? I somehow attributed it to a THC gene but I believe the cows are Thf/PHA free based on breeding. Does anyone else breeding clubby genetics run into this unknown or possibly known delayed crippling effect?

 

[ejoe326]

What part of the country are you in?

There is a weed with the common name of beef steak weed or Perilla Frutescens that has been identified by the University.  It causes a ton of problems with swelling in joints, lameness, mimic footrot, lose tails, poor doing and death.  Thankfully it does not hurt them long term for replacements or feeding them out.

It has what is suppose to be a minty type smell when you pull it or break the leaves.  The calves love it.  The idea is calves won't eat it if they have something else to eat and it thrives in dry soil.  But ours will pick at it for no good reason.

We were suppose to be too far north for it but we have a ton.  If you do have it pull it and burn it.  You can kill it with Forefront but it needs to be removed completely. 

 

[kkomma]

I've never heard of it. We're in Wyoming, so I'm not sure that is around but I can look. The trouble with this ailment seems to be a permanent condition. I have never seen one recover. I've seen about 10 of them now. Does this beef steak weed cause a permanent issue? These calves hobble along, and never recover. We've bred Maine Anjou's for about 20 years and I've only seen it since we went to this pasture and since we started AI'ing with mainstream Club calf genetics. So if its a pasture issue, that would be something I can address. Does anyone else breeding Heatwave type genetics have this occur occasionally?

 

[kkomma]

After reading some of the related posts, I believe this condition is Spastic Paresis. Seems to fit with everything I've seen. Terrible disease that seems to be a recessive trait that just catches up to you every now and again. Some bulls may have it more then others. Thanks everyone for your posts and information.

 

[Telos]

I believe SP is present in the genetics mentioned. To what degree depends on what specific sires you're using on cow families that also potentially display this trait. It's arguably in cattle that are too straight in their structural design with perhaps other contributing factors. Hip rotation is severely restricted which degenerates over time. I question if this is the result of a specific gene or genes, but more about the way cattle are constructed causing a restriction of specific nerve receptors which may also cause muscle weakness. Researchers seem to ignore this disorder with no conclusive facts.

What is your cowherd genetics? You might want to take a closer look of what your matching up. Clubby sires are highly influenced in specific Maine genetics, too.

 

[ejoe326]

I am not sure it is Wyoming but I do not remember seeing it on the list.  If you do a search of the weed it will tell you.

I was wrong in what I wrote.  If a calf or cow gets into or responds to it bad enough they will have lasting effects in that they always seem to be very sensitive to it.  We have kept cows that we saved and they bred back and did not have an issue with fertility or weaning a calf.  Neither have replacement heifers.  But they do have a tendency to be lame.

Are the calves swinging their legs or simply tender?  Is there a lot of stiffness up over their hooks-pins area?  Sometimes swelling there as well.

Any pics?

We have a SP calf this year.  The hell of it is he had the worst respiratory we have ever saved.  I mean weeks of treatment and was patting myself on the back for getting him to go and grow.  He knew more than we did and should have let him go since he is bad enough at weaning he has to be put down.  Makes me sick.  This breeding is a Gucci out of a 734 son/Draft Pick.

 

[Telos]

We have a SP calf this year.  The hell of it is he had the worst respiratory we have ever saved.  I mean weeks of treatment and was patting myself on the back for getting him to go and grow.  He knew more than we did and should have let him go since he is bad enough at weaning he has to be put down.  Makes me sick.  This breeding is a Gucci out of a 734 son/Draft Pick.


Gucci x Draftpick shows some close linebreeding. Was the 734 son out of a Maine bred cow as well?

 

[knabe]

Gucci and draft pick have cunia, a highly suspected sp carrier.

Does the cow have cunia?

If so, you have a chance of having it.

I hope the maine assn (beever) gets a test on this soon. 

Save an ear

 

[ejoe326]

Yes we are sending in the ear when he is put down which will be this week.  I hate doing it but hate seeing them suffer more.

I thought hard about the Gucci on the 734 son/Draft Pick granddaughter before I did it. I normally do not do any sort of linebreeding.  And truthfully I cannot remember why I thought it was a good idea. 

The 734 son, the sire of the mother of the suspect calf, was suppose to be out of an Angus cow.  The Draft Pick grandmother is out of an old time Angus cow Wrangler of Wayside.

Will let you know what happens.

 

[kkomma]

The cows we had this happen on are executive x Cunia son. I think the touch of Cunia might have brought in the set of alleles or possibly it truly becomes a perfect storm of structure. It's an awful disease/condition to watch.

 

[Telos]

The cows we had this happen on are executive x Junia son. I think the touch of Junia might have brought in the set of alleles or possibly it truly becomes a perfect storm of structure. It's an awful disease/condition to watch.

Executive himself was out of one of the best Cunia bred cows being sired by Black Gold. Black Gold was a double bred Cunia son. So Cunia has always looked like one of the culprits of this hideous disorder.

I'll be surprised if scientists find a specific gene. This is such a degenerative disorder and probably has something to do with entrampment of specific nerves that are responsible for rotary hip movement.

 

[DL]

Have any of you had calves come with stiff joints after they went out to pasture? I have only had it a couple times but is it a late THC characteristic?

I would suggest that you have your vet look at the calves - swelling around the joints is NOT usual in SP. In fact swelling of joints of calves is most likely related to septic arthritis (ie naval ill) or injury until proven otherwise. You didn't say how many calves are involved or how often you check them when they are on pasture or when you noticed the problem but it sounds like a number of calves are affected to the same extent - again not usual with SP. Instead of playing pedigree hunt (which is one of my favorite things) I would suggest that you need a diagnosis

Further the genetics of SP have not been determined - it is assumed to be autosomal recessive with variable penetrance +/- environmental component - but it might not be - so although everyone has a favorite culprit in reality it is difficult to implicate specific animals. SP was first described in Holsteins and has been seen in just about every breed of cattle beef and dairy so it is not just a clubby thing

knabe there won't be a test until people start sending in samples and pictures (videos) and pedigrees and samples are useless without a diagnosis

 

[knabe]

knabe there won't be a test until people start sending in samples and pictures (videos) and pedigrees and samples are useless without a diagnosis[/color][/size]

i assume beever has cunia?