calving ease EPD number question

[5PCC]

Sorry that this is such a dumb question to those of you who know, but...as far as calving ease EPDs go...the higher the number, the better...right? So how high of a number should I look for and is this the same across all breeds...Maine, Chi, Angus, Charolais, Shorthorn, etc? Thank you!

 

[obie105]

Calving ease high the number and birth weight lower the number. I know each breed is a little bit different on what is acceptable.

 

[RyanChandler]

Keep in mind that, as a general rule, when calving ease EPD goes up, actual performance goes down. The 'key' is to align the amount of performance you want with the amount of dystocia risk you're willing to assume.

 

[5PCC]

Good advice. Thanks.

 

[BroncoFan]

One thing I think gets lost when talking about calving ease is the size of the pelvis on the cow or the cow's genetics. We have one cow that no matter who she is bred to, she lays down and spits out a 100+ calf. Her calves always get up and suck not long after. We have another cow that no matter who she is bred to she never has a calf over 85lbs. Her calves also get right up and suck. The question is which is the better cow and of which would someone also keep replacement heifers? Both have good sound calves too. They may not be competitive nationally but at a county fair, yes.

 

[5PCC]

My husband has 100+ cows in his commercial cow/calf operation. I have only around 20 show stock cows. For either business, my main goal for heifers is a live calf. If it happens to be show quality on top of that, or does a great job at yield and grade after it is butchered, that is a bonus! But I can't show a dead calf and I can't butcher one that didn't live long enough to make it to the feedlot to begin with!

 

[BroncoFan]

I guess my point is part of calving ease is knowing the size of the cow's pelvis. I think its also knowing the genetics to know whether the cow can or will have bigger calves and will they be born unassisted. The thing I have often wondered is which cow would I rather have. One that throws large birthweight but can calve unassisted or one that consistently throws a smaller calf no matter who the sire is. By the way the one cow is a frame score 5.5 the other is about a 4.

 

[RyanChandler]

The cow with the larger pelvic is likely a larger cow thus having a larger maintenance requirement. She will likely have to both have and wean a larger calf to compensate.  There is always an antagonism associated with any direction you move.  It's all about balance and the right combination for your environment.

 

[HerefordGuy]

I like the comments about knowing your cow's calving ease (maternal calving ease) and balancing the bull's calving ease (direct calving ease).
Here are the percentile rank recommendations for direct calving ease that we make for the Missouri Show-Me-Select Heifer Replacement program
Active Sire Percentile Rank Requirements
Breed Group Percentile Requirement
Angus CED ≥ 7.0
American Upper 20%
British Upper 30%
Continental Upper 15%
Hybrid Upper 15%

 

[5PCC]

Thanks for the helpful comments. I do realize that it doesn't depend solely on the bull...we just pulled more calves from heifers this year than we should have. Every single one was a huge bull calf. We lost the biggest one.

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

I also use the Show-Me Select requirements as a guideline when breeding heifers.

They have each breed listed on their website:
http://agebb.missouri.edu/select/prgmreq.htm
Scroll down to the Certification section.

 

[RyanChandler]

you need to be mindful of actual birth weights too.  I regularly run across cattle with positive CE EPD that have actual bw's over 100lbs.  I don't care if a bull is in the top 1% for CE, if he throws 100lb calves, you're gonna have some problems. 

 

[utshowgirl]

Amen! I couldn't agree more. Sometimes people get to caught up in EPD data. We need to remember to evaluate phenotype, and actual BW and actual data.

 

[5PCC]

I don't typically put a lot of stock in EPDs, but I know there are folks out there with way more AI experience than us, and more experience using some of these bulls. I do appreciate all of the comments!

Just an interesting thought...an older cattleman that I respect a lot told me years ago when I went to him to buy my first good quality Maine Anjou bull that EPDs were created for people who couldn't pick out a good bull just by looking at one. (Meaning that the buyers couldn't tell which one was more structurally correct, etc.) So EPDs were created to help those people pick out "the good bulls" based on the numbers.

I just thought this was interesting advice, so I thought that I would share the thought. I know everyone has their own way of doing things...some folks never pay attention to EPDs and some folks live by them.

 

[RyanChandler]

The most valuable EPDs are those that highlight what you can't tell by visual appraisal.