Canadian Image

[Koulee]

Does anyone know anything about the shorthorn bull Canadian Image?

 

[Doc]

This will be one JIT should jump in on. We've had a couple of dtrs over the years & they were good milkers & momma's. The ones we had were fairly thick, to be sired by a dual registered bull. He was a nice roan color. One of the best CI dtrs we had was a Green Row Peppermint cow. I had a tank go bad about 15 years ago & lost the last 20 ampules that I had.

 

[justintime]

Canadian Image was a dual purpose(Now called Milking Shorthorns) Shorthorn bull .He came near the end of the era when there were dual purpose cattle that were exactly that...  both used for beef and milk production. He was a roan bull that probably weighed in excess of 2400 lb. He was thick, had some but, good bone and a big square hip. He was sired by a bull that was many years ahead of his time, named Hillview Hobo.

Shortly after I got out of college, I was trying to expand our herd and I told Bert Pepper in Ontario, that I would like to try to find a couple of dual purpose cows to add to our herd. One day he phoned and he told me that there was a herd for sale in Ontario, and there were some good cows in it. I flew to Ontario ( I still remember that my round trip ticket was $98) and Bert toured me to a number of herds. I was totally amazed as I had never in my life seen cows like this. They were big, thick, good uddered, with tremendous capacity. I found out that I could buy the cows that were lower milk producers for virtually market price. Before I came back home, I had assembled a pot load of cows and a paternal brother to Canadian Image, called Green Row Dominator. There was one cow that I paid $1000 for, because she was the best cow I had ever seen up to that time. The rest of the load averaged me $300 each. They had milk records on all the cows, so I concentrated on cows under 8000 lb milk as these were the thickest deepest cows and also were the ones that the dairy herds wanted to replace.

After these cows came back here, I wondered if I had made a mistake as it took them about two years to adjust to our environment. Some never did and were sold, but over 1/2 became outstanding tough cows, once they got adjusted. Some of these cows were super tough... I am sure i could not have killed them with an axe. Three produced calves every year until they were past 20 years old. One cow came in open finally at 22 and she still had a perfect udder and looked like a five year old. It really hurt me to load her on the truck to market.

Canadian Image probably sired bigger framed cattle than his sire did. Like most dual purpose cattle, I always felt he sired better females than he did bulls, but that is understandable when selection for female traits has been most important for generation after generation.  Canadian Image had huge testicles and had great rib shape. His offspring also had better carcass data that most other Shorthorns at that time. I think there are lots of lines now that would be better today though. He was a bull with lots of eye appeal. The Hobo line were a rare combination as they were carcass cattle that had excellent fertility and milk traits. Usually muscle and milk are antagonistic to each other, but both of these were fairly good in this line.

I will see if I can find a picture of Canadian Image. I know there are a bunch somewhere in the thousands of breed journals and sale catalogs I have in my attic( to my wife this stuff is jiunk.. to me it is priceless!). I also have the Ernmore dispersal catalog in Manitoba where Canadian Image sold. He topped the sale at $8000 as a mature bull to Darell Ippenson in Illinois.

 

[JoeBnTN]

Canadian Image was a dual purpose(Now called Milking Shorthorns) Shorthorn bull .He came near the end of the era when there were dual purpose cattle that were exactly that...  both used for beef and milk production. He was a roan bull that probably weighed in excess of 2400 lb. He was thick, had some but, good bone and a big square hip. He was sired by a bull that was many years ahead of his time, named Hillview Hobo.

Shortly after I got out of college, I was trying to expand our herd and I told Bert Pepper in Ontario, that I would like to try to find a couple of dual purpose cows to add to our herd. One day he phoned and he told me that there was a herd for sale in Ontario, and there were some good cows in it. I flew to Ontario ( I still remember that my round trip ticket was $98) and Bert toured me to a number of herds. I was totally amazed as I had never in my life seen cows like this. They were big, thick, good uddered, with tremendous capacity. I found out that I could buy the cows that were lower milk producers for virtually market price. Before I came back home, I had assembled a pot load of cows and a paternal brother to Canadian Image, called Green Row Dominator. There was one cow that I paid $1000 for, because she was the best cow I had ever seen up to that time. The rest of the load averaged me $300 each. They had milk records on all the cows, so I concentrated on cows under 8000 lb milk as these were the thickest deepest cows and also were the ones that the dairy herds wanted to replace.

After these cows came back here, I wondered if I had made a mistake as it took them about two years to adjust to our environment. Some never did and were sold, but over 1/2 became outstanding tough cows, once they got adjusted. Some of these cows were super tough... I am sure i could not have killed them with an axe. Three produced calves every year until they were past 20 years old. One cow came in open finally at 22 and she still had a perfect udder and looked like a five year old. It really hurt me to load her on the truck to market.

Canadian Image probably sired bigger framed cattle than his sire did. Like most dual purpose cattle, I always felt he sired better females than he did bulls, but that is understandable when selection for female traits has been most important for generation after generation.  Canadian Image had huge testicles and had great rib shape. His offspring also had better carcass data that most other Shorthorns at that time. I think there are lots of lines now that would be better today though. He was a bull with lots of eye appeal. The Hobo line were a rare combination as they were carcass cattle that had excellent fertility and milk traits. Usually muscle and milk are antagonistic to each other, but both of these were fairly good in this line.

I will see if I can find a picture of Canadian Image. I know there are a bunch somewhere in the thousands of breed journals and sale catalogs I have in my attic( to my wife this stuff is jiunk.. to me it is priceless!). I also have the Ernmore dispersal catalog in Manitoba where Canadian Image sold. He topped the sale at $8000 as a mature bull to Darell Ippenson in Illinois.

JiT,

I'll save you the time.  I found this one on Roy Lovaas' web site - he's got pictures of several of the great "old" bulls of the breed.  If you want tos ee some of the sires that influend the breed during teh 60's-70's, go to Roy's page - http://www.rlshorthorns.com/native_shorthorns.htm

Enjoy!!

Joe

 

[OH Breeder]

Canadian Image was a dual purpose(Now called Milking Shorthorns) Shorthorn bull .He came near the end of the era when there were dual purpose cattle that were exactly that...  both used for beef and milk production. He was a roan bull that probably weighed in excess of 2400 lb. He was thick, had some but, good bone and a big square hip. He was sired by a bull that was many years ahead of his time, named Hillview Hobo.

Hillview Hobo.

 

[linnettejane]

wow...awesome website...some of those older bulls are unbelievable!!!  i really like clipper king of usa,TPS Coronet Leader 61st, and what a butt on FA Warrior 41!

 

[sjcattleco]

those old bulls are awesome.... that's why we have been trying to reproduce them for years!!!! in 40 yrs bulls like Gizmo and Image and Am will be right there in that club! and will still be good cattle!

 

[CJC]

I that he was talking about whiskey a first. (lol)

 

[OH Breeder]

wow...awesome website...some of those older bulls are unbelievable!!!  i really like clipper king of usa,TPS Coronet Leader 61st, and what a butt on FA Warrior 41!

CLipper Kind daughter for flush in the Shorthorn Sale on saturday.

 

[oakview]

I have fond memories of some of these older bulls, too.  Many of them had traits we would like to infuse into our herd today.  However, I think most of the hype is unjustified and just a case of us old timers longing for the good old days and perhaps the good old days maybe not being as good as we think.  For example:  We had the grand champion bull at the Iowa and Minnesota State Fairs in 1975 with a 'dual purpose' bull, the first to ever win either state fair.  This was about the time of Canadian Image, Lancer, Great White Hope, etc.  Our bull, Justamere Todd, was born in July, 1973, showed as a senior yearling, and weighed 1,640 at the Iowa State Fair at 25 months of age.  He was considered huge at the time and compared to what we had seen the previous 10 years, he was exceptionally big.  Noted long time Shorthorn breeder Lloyd Hatch judged the Minnesota State Fair and couldn't find enough good things to say about our bull.  It is not uncommon today to see March-April spring yearling bulls, 16-17 months of age, weigh more than 1,640 at the state fair.  In fact, Hilltop Lancer 457, later to be named National Champion, was reserve at both state fairs as a spring yearling and barely topped 1,300.  He was by far the biggest bull of his age group.  We used Leader 21st and Leader 9th in the late 60's and early 70's and were lucky to wean 500 pound calves.  We had cows in those days with bottle teats, udders that drug on the ground, and fed out cattle with huge gobs of fat around their tail head.  Some of the cows were easy keeping, others were not.  If you have old Shorthorn World magazines, check out some of the ads from the early 70's where breeders were bragging about their 1,800 pound cows.  We were fortunate that the dual purpose lines we used were relatively easy keeping, but many were not.  I remember the manager of KC Farms in the 70's stating in their ad for one of their bulls that they were more interested in the 2nd 1,000 pounds than the 1st.  In other bulls, the later maturing kind were what they wanted.  If memory serves correctly, the bull he was referring to was a son of Leader 21st.  I think they were also involved with the sire of Clipper King of USA, Clipper King of Bapton.  I had a breeder tell me the other day he would like to find semen out of Louada Aristocrat from the 60's.  We had some of that breeding back then and other than a thick hair coat, I can't think of any good reason to recreate that mess.  Calving ease was no better back then, either.  The first heifer I bought with my own money was a daughter of Bapton Crusader from Kadel Urice.  We found her lying on her side in the creek trying to have her calf.  Of course, we had to drag her out of the creek and haul her to the barn.  She never got up.  Over time our management skills have improved, so now we have them already in the barn when this happens.  If you want to use bulls from 40 years ago, I don't care.  Just don't expect miracles.

 

[justintime]

Lonny... I could not agree more!!!  As I have said on here numerous times, there are a few bulls from the past that may have a place in today's industry, but most should be forgotten for all time. Just because there is still semen from some of these bulls doesn't mean it should be used. I also have fond memories of some of the bulls of this era, and I have gone back and used some of them, simply because there is a market for some of the offspring. Let's just be careful what we are doing. I can hardly believe some one is wanting Louada Aristocrat semen!!! He was just about as small as they can be made and he probably had a 7 inch ribeye.

I am left scratching my head when I see how small framed some people are wanting to go. We have had this discussion on here before, but I am afraid the pendulum is going too far.

 

[aj]

As far as to whether purebred cattle are to big or to little. I'm thinking the market,the beef industry, the commercial cow calf guy, the beef packers will decide what size of cattle will work in any enviroment or economy. The purebred cattle people haven't got anything right yet. They are always the last ones to get it(and they are drug in yelling and screaming). Purebred breeders shouldn't determine anything and who gives a damn what some louisville judge says. I think purebred breeders should listen to what the market wants. The big midland bull station sale is coming up in april. This test doesn't test everything that needs to be tested for but I wish every purebred breeder in the world would go there and watch a 3 day deal that makes some since. These genetics are hot and real world. These cattle don't look anything like the showring cattle we see.jmo  GO SHORTHORNS

 

[aj]

midlandbulltest.com

 

[simtal]

I think purebred breeders should listen to what the market wants.

that all depends what your market is