cattle prod

[smo]

i want to get something to make my cows go into the squeeze. problem is idk anything about any of the cattle prods i dont want shock the living shit out of them but i wanta make them move what one should i get?

 

[GoWyo]

Worked cows last night and the worst ones were the old ex-show heifers.  Had to put a halter on three of them and lead them up the alley since they would not respond to anything else.  Hate to use a prod, but I am not opposed to it and it sure gets the respect back.  I use the one that is all yellow in the body and the extension rod.

 

[obie105]

Our vet hates us lol all of our small herd is old show heifers and we have to lead some of them through. My husband hauls livestock so he uses a prod everyday and likes the green rechargeable ones. Then with any prod you can use different wand lengths to accommodate yourself.

 

[smo]

the x show heifers r the ones im on my last straw with lol but the there like a chart of like how many volts each one has or something are some stronger than others ow what cause i want a lower one

 

[obie105]

http://www.miller-mfg.com/page/Hot-Shot.jsp

Heres the link to the company that makes most livestock prods. I didnt find anywhere that said which ones were more or less powerful. Honestly from using different ones I think they are all close to the same.

 

[BTDT]

Instead of having the cows change your behavior, why don't you try and change their behavior?  It really isn't that difficult and saves you from going down the long road of eventually having to work your cattle with 4-wheelers and hot shots from the pasture clear into the chute.
You did not mention how many head you have but if you have less than 50 head, get your cattle into the lot or pen and have them walk straight through the alley and chute. Lure them with feed or nice hay and water.  Once they go through, turn them out and repeat the next day or next week. Train the cattle that going through the alley and chute will not be a painful experience.  Once the cattle learn that, you will not have any issues. 
Show heifers are unwilling to walk through the alley and walk through the chute is because for their whole lives, they have never walked down an alley because they are led to the grooming chute, and once they are fitted, they are BACKED out. It is not their fault they were trained to do that.

Please reconsider your use of a hot shot. All it will accomplish is the cows will dread going down the chute even more, and you will find yourself using it more and more.

 

[nkotb]

I agree with BTDT.  I have seen more wrecks happen because of hot shots than number of times a hot shot is genuinely needed to help move cattle.  We have done the baiting through the chute before, usually only takes a 2-3 trips through, then work them easy from there on out and your good to go.

 

[GoWyo]

I have not used a prod in a couple of years mostly because my working facilities are still in a "temporary" state.  If we use one, the cows will probably blow out the portable panels and wreck the whole set up.  Maybe it's a good thing I haven't finished building the alley setup because it requires us to use of finesse rather than force.

 

[nate53]

Hot shots have their place.  It's like with anything else you have to know when to use and when not to.  Agressive or nervous animals will only be made worse if a hot shot is used.  However some cows that you push and push on, twist their tail and they still won't go (calm stubborn animals), a little shock on the rear usually gets them to go.  If we are working like a 100 head of cows, we might use the shocker on one or two animals.  It is just a quick shock and they go, we usually put a pipe behind them so they can't backup.  If one considers a quick shock inhumane, one probably should not have an electric fence either.

Yes running them thru the chute with out catching them, or allowing them to walk thru the chute - alley on their own without catching will help them ( if this is even an option for you). 

Whether you use a hot shot or not, some animals won't want to go.  Kinda like when my kids have to go to the doctor, they don't like going (because they remember the shots they got last time they went). ;D

I like the rechargeable kind the best.

 

[DL]

i want to get something to make my cows go into the squeeze. problem is idk anything about any of the cattle prods i dont want shock the living **** out of them but i wanta make them move what one should i get?

Learn how to work your cows - read about low stress handling -figure out how to make the cows do what you want and think it was their decision - if the cows perceive the chute in a negative way (ie what do you do in the chute - is it always unpleasant?) they will be reluctant to go into the squeeze. Sent them thru with the head gate open and a reward (food) at the end. Once they walk thru without issue catch them in the head gate and give them a handful of grain. You can train your cows to go in the chute - it takes patience, the ability to read cows and know how they move and the willingness to try something different. A brain and low stress handling is a better way to work cows than a prod. There may be a place for prods, but if you need them to work your own herd you are doing something wrong

 

[JSchroeder]

I promise I don't mean to be rude but how do you convince a cow that getting immobilized and poked with a needles before some guy sticks his hand up her butt was her idea?

 

[smo]

my cows just are really stubborn and dont ever want to move. about six of them i have to twist their tails and push and shove for about 20 min to get them to go down the ally. it just becomes a long day when you have to give them all shots and stuff and if you waist a bunch of time convincing them its a good thing and give them some grain and what not one you start stabbing them with shots and preg checking them again is it like a never ending process or do they still go in fine

 

[DL]

my cows just are really stubborn and dont ever want to move. about six of them i have to twist their tails and push and shove for about 20 min to get them to go down the ally. it just becomes a long day when you have to give them all shots and stuff and if you waist a bunch of time convincing them its a good thing and give them some grain and what not one you start stabbing them with shots and preg checking them again is it like a never ending process or do they still go in fine

I think training cows to go in the chute and rewarding them, while perhaps time intensive in the beginning, pays of down the road. I work my cows alone - once gathered they pretty much self load into the chute - there is a pan of grain at the end of the chute - it is a manual head gate - they go in the chute - I open the head gate - they put there head in and start eating - I give whatever shots I need to, pour on dewormer, ultrasound pg check etc - the overall experience to them is positive and the fact that they got shots or whatever the previous time does not deter them from going back into the chute  - they want to go in bc they get a reward - not rocket science Jeff - you just have to understand how cows think, the concept of positive reinforcement and rewards - the feed not only is a reward but also a distraction - why do you think pediatric wards are filled with multicolored walls and fuzzy creatures?

 

[JSchroeder]

I understand how most cows think, but I’m far from arrogant enough to think I know how all cows think.

How many cows do you run?  It’s a relevant question because you’re free to spend (waste) a lot more time per cow when you have a couple dozen head than when you’re working a moderate sized herd with a crew.

Real world example, you’re ~67 head into a 130 head working day and you get a cow that backs up on the rear gate and won’t move.  She just flat out will not take a step forward regardless of which pressure point you try to stand in or walk into.  It’s not that the chute has problems; the previous cows went through just fine.

How many hours do you hold up the crew and the other 63 cows waiting for her to go forward to feed?

I’d dare say the only thing more ignorant than thinking you have to use a hot shot on every cow through the chute is thinking every single cow in the pen has read and agreed to behave like the cows in Temple Grandin articles.

edit: That last sentence is misleading because even she agrees that a person should expect to use cattle prods on 1-5% of cattle entering a squeeze chute.

If you don't want to use a hot shot, cool, good for you.  Just stop the condescending "you just don't understand cows" stuff every time the subject of using cattle prods comes up.

 

[knabe]

I promise I don't mean to be rude but how do you convince a cow that getting immobilized and poked with a needles before some guy sticks his hand up her butt was her idea?

I thought you were talkig about taxpayers for a second.

 

[MCC]

I know I should keep my BIG MOUTH SHUT! However this topic is hilarious to me.  I work at a 55,000 head feedlot and help process. If we tried to reward or persuade every one that didn't want to come through the snake or chute we wouldn't get anything done. Our cows don't want to go through the chute most of the time either because they have been through there so many times to get shots, bred , preg checked, etc. Bottom line get a hotshot and USE IT WHEN YOU NEED TO!

 

[BTDT]

Jeff, I personally run 100 head of cows, along with 300 ac row crop and hay ground. I do it all myself. I also have an off the farm job "in my spare time".  In my "other spare time", I assist a neighbor with their 700 head cow/calf operation, along with their row crop and hay production.  Neither of our farms uses a hot shot. We both sync a good percentage of cows with cidrs, AI, early preg, vaccinate, fly tag, then later in the fall, we normally run them through again to re-preg, pour, worm.  So I doubt many people run their cows through the chute much more than we do. And yet we still don't have a hot shot.
Neither of our farms "waste time" because from the very start as calves, they learn the chute and the forward motion, is not painful or uncomfortable. Since we both keep our own replacements, we do not have to re-train them from a farm that uses hot shots.

A question for you Jeff: If every time you went into the local bar, you got whooped up side of the head, would you keep going to that bar? Doubtful, but what if you HAD to? Someone would whoop you up side of the head in the parking lot to get you to go into the bar, and then since it was painful, they had to whoop you up side of the head again to get you to the bar. You then learn that the parking lot was also painful, so then they had to whoop you up side of the head on the highway to get you to go to the parking lot, and then whoop you again to get you to go into the bar and then whoop you to go to the bar. You then learn that the highway wasn't the place to be so you don't go there, so they whoop you to go to the highway, and then..... you get the picture.
But on the other hand, if someone said, "Hey bud, if you go to the bar, I will buy you a drink, and if you are nice, I will even pay for your cab to go home."  Well, you might just decide that is a pretty cool place, so no one has to whoop you to go near it.

MCC - I will admit, a feedlot is a bit of a different situation, but not that you fall under this catagory, but I have been to my share of feedlots, and have to wonder if the cattle are smarter than the human help.  Read above. Grandin did not get famous because she is wrong and she has worked with the largest feedlots and slaughter houses in the WORLD. She has retrained the help to work livestock without the use of hot shots.

SMO - Just wait till you have to waste time chasing them to come into the pen, which leads to the barn, which leads to the chute and alley. THEN you will know all about wasting time! 

A few minutes to allow a cow to move on her own, will save you hours in the long run. Trust me.

 

[JSchroeder]

BTDT, I hope I made it clear that I understand the idea of coaxing cattle through the chute. 

What I'm saying is that there are cows that just don't buy into it and need to be prodded.  Not many, just like Temple Grandin says, about 1-5% of them.

I'm not talking about the cows that you have to wait a few minutes on, though I wouldn't fault a person for a slight pop of the prod in that situation.  I'm talking about the cows that will literally stand in the alley leading the chute an entire night rather than go through.

You don't have to exaggerate and claim cattle won't come in the pen if you give them a slight pop with the hot shot.  It's not a constant excessive use vs no use at all thing. 

My gripe is with the folks that claim a person doesn't know how cows think or is just impatient because they use a hot shot in appropriate situations.

 

[iowabeef]

BTDT, I hope I made it clear that I understand the idea of coaxing cattle through the chute. 

What I'm saying is that there are cows that just don't buy into it and need to be prodded.  Not many, just like Temple Grandin says, about 1-5% of them.

I'm not talking about the cows that you have to wait a few minutes on, though I wouldn't fault a person for a slight pop of the prod in that situation.  I'm talking about the cows that will literally stand in the alley leading the chute an entire night rather than go through.

You don't have to exaggerate and claim cattle won't come in the pen if you give them a slight pop with the hot shot.  It's not a constant excessive use vs no use at all thing. 

My gripe is with the folks that claim a person doesn't know how cows think or is just impatient because they use a hot shot in appropriate situations.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Different things work for different people in different situations.  The condescending attitude is not helpful and in an ADULT discussion, there is no place for it.  We don't all agree and we shouldn't but to bring down fellow cattlemen because they do what works for them, is quite frankly childish. 

 

[knabe]

maybe we should ban hotshots.

the more we ban, the less arguments there will be.