CE white shorthorn

[cornish]

feed grass-- Thanks for reminding me about Flashback!! How could I forget him!!    Sorry Joe!  My brain has been occupied with getting the last son graduated from High School last week!!
Thanks to everyone for the information on TM Gus as not a heifer bull-- I had no idea he wasn't a good choice for that. Good info.
One of my Red Angus friends was at our graduation party and we talked about cattle and he was at Hawkeye Breeders recently when Berg Shorthorns were there and he said they unloaded a white bull-- anyone know anything about a white bull Berg's would be promoting?
Thanks
EF

as of a month ago-- joe kept reminding me that he cannot promote Flashback as a heifer safe bull- due to bw alone., and a belief of inaccurate EPDS.

 

[sh breeder]

Can anyone recommend a calving ease white shorthorn bull to use on black heifers for making blue roans?

we have 2 CE bull in our tank in eastern Iowa
that we use on hiefers.

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Thanks for the information on Flashback.  I'm learning something new here all day long. 
Anyone who breeds cattle has to evaluate the numbers, evaluate what they are breeding to and make a decision-- some producers are willing to accept more risk when breeding heifers than others
and some situations will come out completely different.
I, personally, would not be afraid to try Flashback on heifers because I am familiar with the bloodline and my heifers' backgrounds.

EF

 

[GONEWEST]

This one has been around a long time

http://www.steppingstonegenetics.com/pd_okie.cfm

 

[cornish]

Thanks for the information on Flashback.   I'm learning something new here all day long. 
Anyone who breeds cattle has to evaluate the numbers, evaluate what they are breeding to and make a decision-- some producers are willing to accept more risk when breeding heifers than others
and some situations will come out completely different.
I, personally, would not be afraid to try Flashback on heifers because I am familiar with the bloodline and my heifers' backgrounds.

EF

I am breeding Flashback to my red and roan heifers-- but I'm a little different.

This one has been around a long time

http://www.steppingstonegenetics.com/pd_okie.cfm

I wonder if a Double Stuff grandson with Rodeo Drive in there close----------- is calving ease???    Besides being PHA C.  But again, who am I to question...

 

[nativeman]

DMH FROSTY CLIPPER is the calving ease bull to use. 63 lbs.Came from ole Wally Kloses Diamond K Herd . A son of Clipper King of USA. Has Super Flag and a couple shots of Leader 21st. in him. Semen is available. Go to DMH CATTLE for pictures.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Homedale Blizzard is calving ease many years over-just dont expect a show calf-hes pretty dual looking O0

 

[shorthornmn]

You should really try using Sin City. He is an all white purebreed shorthorn bull and is double clean for PHA and TH. We use him on all our heifers and have never had a calf bigger than 75 lbs. They grow and gain like crazy and as soon as they hit the ground they are up sucking. With Sin City, you'll get a blue roan. No doubt. You can get semen on him from just about anywhere (Cattle Visions, Top Sires, etc). Good luck!

 

[OH Breeder]

You should really try using Sin City. He is an all white purebreed shorthorn bull and is double clean for PHA and TH. We use him on all our heifers and have never had a calf bigger than 75 lbs. They grow and gain like crazy and as soon as they hit the ground they are up sucking. With Sin City, you'll get a blue roan. No doubt. You can get semen on him from just about anywhere (Cattle Visions, Top Sires, etc). Good luck!

I would  not recommend Sin City. I talked to the guys that promoted him the first couple years he was out. I used him thinking calving ease and had a near disaster on first calf heifer. They told me he was not consistent and if there was birth weight in the history he could and would pick up on it. They can come with some size and bone.

CE -3.8
BW +3.4

 

[Shorthorn Newbie]

Can anyone recommend a calving ease white shorthorn bull to use on black heifers for making blue roans?

Homedale Blizzard is an excellent calving ease sire. Lots of nice females out of him too. Not sure how much is available now that he is deceased but he was available through Genex. We just had a very nice white grandson of his out of our herdsire (Bonanza son) in April.

Check out Kaehlerfamily.com for a picture of Blizzard.

 

[shorthornmn]

You should really try using Sin City. He is an all white purebreed shorthorn bull and is double clean for PHA and TH. We use him on all our heifers and have never had a calf bigger than 75 lbs. They grow and gain like crazy and as soon as they hit the ground they are up sucking. With Sin City, you'll get a blue roan. No doubt. You can get semen on him from just about anywhere (Cattle Visions, Top Sires, etc). Good luck!

I would  not recommend Sin City. I talked to the guys that promoted him the first couple years he was out. I used him thinking calving ease and had a near disaster on first calf heifer. They told me he was not consistent and if there was birth weight in the history he could and would pick up on it. They can come with some size and bone.

CE -3.8
BW +3.4

I was just giving our farms experience with it. We have used him on all our heifers and have never once had a problem. No assistance ever needed. We have a neighbor that also uses him and they first year calving after breeding to him they had a lot of calving problems. After visiting them we learned that they were feeding ws pretty heavy over the winter. We recommended cutting back and trying to use him again. They did and the next year had 0 calves that needed assistance. More breeders need to realize how feeding pregnant cows can affect birth weights. I believe this is part of the problem in EPDs for things like birth weight because they are often not very accurate. Many breeders  lie about birth weights etc. Unless the EPD is especially extreme one way Or another I feel like they can be very inconsistent.

 

[shorthornmn]

Also as an update- none of our cows/heifers are bred for calving ease. They are mostly from a club calf operation that bred for big and thick and big boned etc. And we haven't had any problems.

 

[kfacres]

You should really try using Sin City. He is an all white purebreed shorthorn bull and is double clean for PHA and TH. We use him on all our heifers and have never had a calf bigger than 75 lbs. They grow and gain like crazy and as soon as they hit the ground they are up sucking. With Sin City, you'll get a blue roan. No doubt. You can get semen on him from just about anywhere (Cattle Visions, Top Sires, etc). Good luck!

I would  not recommend Sin City. I talked to the guys that promoted him the first couple years he was out. I used him thinking calving ease and had a near disaster on first calf heifer. They told me he was not consistent and if there was birth weight in the history he could and would pick up on it. They can come with some size and bone.

CE -3.8
BW +3.4

I was just giving our farms experience with it. We have used him on all our heifers and have never once had a problem. No assistance ever needed. We have a neighbor that also uses him and they first year calving after breeding to him they had a lot of calving problems. After visiting them we learned that they were feeding ws pretty heavy over the winter. We recommended cutting back and trying to use him again. They did and the next year had 0 calves that needed assistance. More breeders need to realize how feeding pregnant cows can affect birth weights. I believe this is part of the problem in EPDs for things like birth weight because they are often not very accurate. Many breeders  lie about birth weights etc. Unless the EPD is especially extreme one way Or another I feel like they can be very inconsistent.
[/quote

i have had one person tell me that back in the day- Trump was used as a calving ease bull...  however, in more recent times as his offspring numbers have taken over-- people realize that he, nor his sons-- need to be stuck in vigin heifers.  Sorry, that BW EPD, is more extreme-- and it's pretty danged consistent through Sin City's brothers and sisters.. 

 

[shorthornmn]

That's fine. We are just going to keep using him on heifers because we haven't had a problem. I'm not arguing that he's right for calving ease in everyone's herd but he's been working right for a long time in our herd and a few other herds around us and a plus side is that's its not a wasted calf out of the heifer. Ours have come small and have got up and sucked and grown into some good cattle for us.  I appreciate your opinion but I must say from a lot of consistent experience with him.

 

[OH Breeder]

That's fine. We are just going to keep using him on heifers because we haven't had a problem. I'm not arguing that he's right for calving ease in everyone's herd but he's been working right for a long time in our herd and a few other herds around us and a plus side is that's its not a wasted calf out of the heifer. Ours have come small and have got up and sucked and grown into some good cattle for us.  I appreciate your opinion but I must say from a lot of consistent experience with him.

The owners talked to hundred of people across the country. The EPD's are made up of more than 3 herds. Not trying to be a smart ass but I went to the source when I barely got a 125# calf out of a first calf heifer. She has calved unassisted t NON- Trump blood lines since. I do not use Trump lines on her for that very reason. I think you should use what works for YOU. But when you are talking heifers you have to use something that has worked for more than just YOU. I have done enough c-sections because in my first few years I wanted "those calves". I like having productive cows more than I like having c-sections.

 

[shorthornmn]

It is working for more than just me. Multiple breeders in my area are having small calves out of first calf heifers and those calves go on to be very productive cows often having nice small calves themselves and often produce some of my high selling calves. In the last 7 years we have only had one c-section on a cow and she wasn't a sin city and she wasn't bred to sin city. U have to use sin city on the right heifers and cows. If you have a tiny heifer with a vary narrow pelvic area you are probably going to have a c-section almost no matter what bull you use. There have been many studies done that also show that moderate to heavy selection for calving ease lead to cow herds with very small pelvic regions and this is BAD. There Really needs to be a balance Or we will have a lot of very unproductive cows with small pelvic regions that actually lead to more c-sections.

 

[OH Breeder]

It is working for more than just me. Multiple breeders in my area are having small calves out of first calf heifers and those calves go on to be very productive cows often having nice small calves themselves and often produce some of my high selling calves. In the last 7 years we have only had one c-section on a cow and she wasn't a sin city and she wasn't bred to sin city. U have to use sin city on the right heifers and cows. If you have a tiny heifer with a vary narrow pelvic area you are probably going to have a c-section almost no matter what bull you use. There have been many studies done that also show that moderate to heavy selection for calving ease lead to cow herds with very small pelvic regions and this is BAD. There Really needs to be a balance Or we will have a lot of very unproductive cows with small pelvic regions that actually lead to more c-sections.

Got it. The folks in your immediate area.

" Very true about what works for one doesn't always work for another."

the CE 's were based on 549 Herds Prg. If I were a betting person which I am not. I would use this bull ASA #4142538 without out a doubt based on the genetics behind him. Sin City is not stacked with CE.

 

[kfacres]

so if the bull only works for those people in your immediate area, and no-where else-- why would you promote him to someone else not from your 10 mile circle? 

You are just promoting a disaster to anyone not living within 10 miles of you. 

 

[shorthornmn]

Because it hasn't been a disaster and before this I haven't heard of anyone having problems with him. When I talk about "my area" I'm not talking about a 10 mile area. No need to be condescending. I'm talking about a much larger 2 Or 3 state region including wi il and ia. It works for people I know and it hasn't just been 1 Or 2 ppl and myself. It's been more like 10 Or 15. I am only talking about "my area" because that's what I know. You don't know that it isn't working for other people too.  All I was doing was offering "my" opinion on what works for our herd and multiple others. I gave "my" record of birth weights etc. When we began using sin city that was not his EPD for birth weight. It was much lower. However its not like his calves have continually gotten bigger birth weights in the last few years. You need to realize that management of pregnant cows almost has a bigger impact on calving ease than the sire of the calf. There are also reports that show this. I can find the studies for you if needed. Another important fact is that calving ease has a very low inheritance rate, you are more Or less just selecting for tiny cattle with no pelvic region which like I said before leads to in fact more problems. This is a fact that you learn in introductory animal science classes in college.

 

[kfacres]

I live in NW IL, and grew up in S IL... and I don't know a single person who's had good luck with Sin City, especially not breeding him to heifers... so I'd say you can take IL off your list of success areas (in your 'area'.)