Chapter Angus Herd Bull Suggestions

[Mcabram]

Our chapter has a registered black angus Herd of about 40 head. Over the past generations the cows have always been bred to the bull with the lowest possible birthweight. This has given us small framed cattle, masculine heifers, feminine bulls, and loss of overall quality.
We have two "groups"
Older cows who need a bull that will add depth, bone, and butt to his calves
Younger cows who need a bull that is super sound structured,add butt, and will add masculinity and femininity respectively.
I know we can't breed perfect calves out of good bulls and okay cows, so I just would like to see what you all think would compliment them the best.
The calves will be used as show animals for the first year, then the majority of the bulls are sold and several heifers are sold to help pay for feed.
The bulls recommended really need to be registered black angus, just to stay with our purebred Herd.
Thank you guys in advance!

 

[ty378]

Mohnen South Dakota will add lots of hip and bone. Sav brilliance is a popular choice as well he's a 0 on be with a good CED, he will make show females and momma cows.

 

[cowboy_nyk]

You're in a tough spot.  Using calving ease on top of calving ease for so long, you've bred yourself into a bit of a corner.  Many performance bulls are going to cause you some calving difficulty on the frailer type cows.  In your situation I'd suggest Sitz Upward 307R and any of his more popular sons (Bruin Uproar is a good one).  He'll add some bone and performance, make feminine daughters and masculine bulls.  His calving ease is quite acceptable for a performance bull so he shouldn't cause issues with your smaller cows.  Also the Canadian bull HF Tiger 5T would work well.  Calves come early so calving ease is gained that way, while not sacrificing much performance.

 

[Mark H]

How about using Young Dale Xcalber or one of his sons like Young dale belive or Nozeka?
Aother bull to look at is HF Kodiak.

 

[CMANGUS]

you might try to use some EXAR Blue Chip.  we used him on one of our cows and got a 71lb calf.  performance has been amazing on this calf.  weaned at 900.  adjusted yearling of 1445.
we are currently showing the Bull.

 

[ty378]

I walked threw the angus in Denver a few times this year and the blue chip cattle in general were not thick enough

 

[CMANGUS]

I walked threw the angus in Denver a few times this year and the blue chip cattle in general were not thick enough

Wasn't in Denver to see any of those, but this guy I would say is plenty thick.  We will definitely use blue chip in our program more based on the performance and look we have with this bull calf

 

[ty378]

What's that Bulls dam sired by cmangus

 

[GoWyo]

I like Nyk's suggestions for what you are trying to do. 

Another idea, if you have some solid mature cows, you might try an old school "real bull" -- Vermilion Dateline 7078 (VRD).  Semen is still widely available and I would keep every heifer and cull any cow that has any trouble with calving to him.  You will clean up your problem pretty quickly.

 

[CMANGUS]

What's that Bulls dam sired by cmangus

His Dam is siredby RC Wiley Post.. she is out of BearMtn Pride.

 

[cowboy_nyk]

I like Nyk's suggestions for what you are trying to do. 

Another idea, if you have some solid mature cows, you might try an old school "real bull" -- Vermilion Dateline 7078 (VRD).  Semen is still widely available and I would keep every heifer and cull any cow that has any trouble with calving to him.  You will clean up your problem pretty quickly.

The bull I suggested, Bruin  Uproar, his dam is a full sib to VRD 7078.  Great minds think alike  <beer>

 

[RyanChandler]

-

 

[GoWyo]

Nyk -- have you seen Uproar's maternal brother Torque?  That cow has got it going on.

 

[cowboy_nyk]

Nyk -- have you seen Uproar's maternal brother Torque?  That cow has got it going on.

I already asked my Genex Rep to  look into his availability in Canada.  That calf looks frickin awesome!  <party>

 

[CAB]

  An pretty much unknown bull that I am going to use a little of is HFS First Class, Moffitt Angus. Link below to picture and registration.

  http://moffittangus.com/sires.html

Please rotate the pictures or turn your head 90 degrees. If you click on them, you can rotate them.

 

[Mark H]

XBAR,

I think the two heifer bulls you posted are good calving ease bulls but in this situation where you are dealing with pedigrees stacked with calving ease bulls you need some power to change them.
Just one question to the OP, what are the average EPDs for this herd?  From a functional standpoint what needs improving?  What is the average mature size for the cows?

 

[RyanChandler]

Both of the bulls I posted are good maternal bulls that do what Angus should.  With over 700lb weaning weights and +90 YW's, they're certainly not just specialized calving ease heifer bulls.  'Power' is something that should be seen in terminal crossbreds, not maternal seedstock.

 

[GoWyo]

The Chisum 255 bull (AAA# 17298481) XBAR posted is no pud.  With a MH of +.9, MW 64 and CW 62 he is among the largest EPD body size bulls in the breed.  He would likely power up frailer built cows. 

Charlo is at the other end of the size spectrum being one of the smallest statured and carcass weight bulls in the breed, but with favorable carcass EPDs.

Each are plenty useful, depending on which way you are trying to go.

 

[RyanChandler]

The bulls are within two frames scores of each other and have near identical production EPD's. To me, these two bulls are very similar in type, Chisum just being a larger scale version. 

 

[Mark H]

It is important to remember what the problems we are trying to solve are.  The OP has a small herd of cows with pedigrees that have been stacked with dedicated heifer bulls.  the problems he complains about are not unique and rather common with people that use mass marketed AI bulls.  The two bull listed fit right into this mold.  They may solve one or two problems but do not do a comprehensive job of improving all the traits he needs to improve.  The bulls Nyk and i mention will give plenty of improvement over a wide number of areas the Op mentioned as important. The idea is to combine what the herd is now with a sire that will change them to what he wants.  For this application Young Dale Xcaliber 32 X breeding would bring about the changes needed: http://bohrsonmarketingservices.mybigcommerce.com/young-dale-xcaliber-32x/ No matter what they will need to use more expensive AI bulls to get what they want.
The only thing that concerns me is that I have not received replies to questions I asked or to another question:  What is the level of management this FFA chapter is capable of?