Clone update

[MYT Farms]

I guess I'll say it being nobody else will---how damn many Heat Waves does the industry need??   I know they're for terminal crosses for the most part, but isn't enough, enough!! 

Well now, THERE'S one I ain't heard before, but I'm glad I finally did!

Go Oakbar!

 

[Dusty]

I guess I'll say it being nobody else will---how damn many Heat Waves does the industry need??   I know they're for terminal crosses for the most part, but isn't enough, enough!! 

With the semen revenue that Heat Wave has generated... If I were Lautner I wouldn't want to run out either...

 

[red]

after looking at the Frozen Gold catalog I'd say the demand for him is a hot as ever.

Red

 

[knabe]

the DNA of an animal is set at conception.  Environment has nothing to do with it.

both of these statements are false.

 

[farmboy]

the DNA of an animal is set at conception.  Environment has nothing to do with it.

both of these statements are false.

Partial DNA is collected from the recip cow during development, the way i understand it according to knabe

 

[CAB]

  First of all on the enough HWs, depends on who gets to cash the cks. Oh if Max Fawley knew then what we know now. And second, Knabe to my rescue, please inform Dusty once again. Thanks, Mark. Brent

 

[knabe]

  Just thought, Knabe, are you busy crunching #s figuring us out the real odds for TH/PHA positive calves? When you get time, please educate Dusty again about the clones breeding exactly the same. LOL. Good Luck. Brent

I agree that the clones won't have the exact same DNA.  However I firmly believe that they will breed the same. 


And second, Knabe to my rescue, please inform Dusty once again. Thanks, Mark. Brent

what dusty said may be correct.  breeding the same is such a vague evaluation and differs from person to person.  one may not be able to measure the difference, or they may.  i'm sure not too many people have bothered to go through with the experiment to quantify the difference.

 

[CAB]

  Dusty I'm waiting for the I told you so. Let's get it over with. LOL. Brent

 

[Jill]

I can't speak for anyone else, but we flushed the same cow to Wave on Wave and Heat Wave and I can guarantee you there was a difference, there was enough of a difference that we went back to the higher priced Heat Wave and still have Wave on Wave in the tank. JMO

 

[knabe]

I can't speak for anyone else, but we flushed the same cow to Wave on Wave and Heat Wave and I can guarantee you there was a difference, there was enough of a difference that we went back to the higher priced Heat Wave and still have Wave on Wave in the tank. JMO

what were the differences, more volume, thickness, more front to back

 

[Jill]

The Heat Waves looked like Heat Waves, the Wave on Waves were just calves, not near the thickness or bone structure.

 

[turning grass into beef]

knabe, I need you to elaborate on your post.  are you saying that an animal's DNA can be changed after conception? are you also saying that environment can change an animal's DNA?  I'm not saying that I am right and you are wrong. I have been wrong in the past, I will probably be wrong at some time in the future, and I may be wrong on this one, but I need to know the reasons.

 

[BIGTEX]

Here is some info from an old post.


http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=184.0

 

[knabe]

knabe, I need you to elaborate on your post.  are you saying that an animal's DNA can be changed after conception? are you also saying that environment can change an animal's DNA?  I'm not saying that I am right and you are wrong. I have been wrong in the past, I will probably be wrong at some time in the future, and I may be wrong on this one, but I need to know the reasons.

do a search on this site for methylation, epistasis, clone etc.  i'm out of breath.

 

[CAB]

  Sorry Mark for digging up that can of worms. LOL. I'm with Jill on this deal & I'm gonna breed the bulls that I like & PPL can use the clones if & when they want. I want what I want. If I see a good few out of a clone, I will consider the bull, but I think that the chance of that actually happening are slim just B/C of the fact that most of the good ones are called the original anyway. It will be VERY hard to change my mind. I am an old stuborn fool sometimes. Ok, most of the time.

 

[ROMAX]

Just wondering if the genetic ability gets diluted if you clone a clone,cause surely HEATWAVE has to be dead by now?

 

[knabe]

Just wondering if the genetic ability gets diluted if you clone a clone,cause surely HEATWAVE has to be dead by now?

the telomeres will be shorter, and therefore, the ends of the chromosomes may be more subject to mutation.  remember, the polled gene is the last one on it's chromosome, and there are many mutations within this gene that cause polling, which is why there is no universal test for polling.  add in the rest of the chromosomes and the other ends, and just by cloning a clone, you have introduced some more variability that may rear it's ugly head like germ line mutations AFTER fertilization.

if you look up telomere research, you will find there are somewhat ponce de leon studies to defy ageing by finding ways to keep them long as we age.  shortening them by two rounds of cloning and expecting the same life expectancy is troubling.  however, since you would use the clone to breed, hopefully the naturally bred offspring have a full complement length telomeres.  i haven't kept up on that to see what people are seeing.

 

[MooMooLover]

We had a heatwave steer in 2006 and he was really nice to be around. In 2007 & 2008 had heatwave 1 steers. Both of them were crazy anytime we took them out of the barn. I don't know if that was the difference but thats what we noticed.

 

[OH Breeder]

We had a heatwave steer in 2006 and he was really nice to be around. In 2007 & 2008 had heatwave 1 steers. Both of them were crazy anytime we took them out of the barn. I don't know if that was the difference but thats what we noticed.

Obviously clones are carried by reciep cows. I will tell you the reciep DOES contribute to the tempermant of the calf. I had a Partiover x Dr Who that was carried by Trans Ova reciep of unknown heritage. She was crazy as a loon. She would climb the wall with or without you in front of it. Her calf was so nutty he didn't last long on our farm. My nephews are healthy young men and they couldn't handle him. For a month we tried everything to get him to calm down. He never did. If he could find a hole or space to go through he would. Just a thought.

 

[Tooker]

Just wondering if the genetic ability gets diluted if you clone a clone,cause surely HEATWAVE has to be dead by now?

Just wondering if the genetic ability gets diluted if you clone a clone,cause surely HEATWAVE has to be dead by now?
I don't think he is dead but, it doesn't matter, the DNA they have can still be used time after time etc.