College education, community college vs 4-yr degree

[dutch pride]

We have been looking at which direction would be best for our son to persue. Here is some background. We live in Michigan and my my son really would like to work toward a goal of owning his own cow/calf herd at some point with an emphasis on show cattle. He realizes that his options might be somewhat limited in Michigan and might be willing to relocate to realize his dream. He also realizes he will probably have to get some sort of job before he can start out on his own.

We went to visit Michigan State this week which is where he kind of thought he wanted to go but is not so sure about the whole large 40,000+ student campus. Also not sure wether to try to get a 4 yr degree in Animal Science or possibly Agricultural Business or MSU has a AG tech program that is just 2 to 3 semesters with an internship.

There are not any community colleges here that I know of that offer Ag programs like there are in some other areas.

If anyone can comment on their opinions of education benefits, 4-yr vs 2-yr, in state, out of state etc. It will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

DLZ

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I would highly recommend a 2 year junior college even if you have to go to a neighboring state. That is the direction I went with my oldest daughter. She was recruited for the judging team and was able to get the basic credits out of the way there at a much cheaper cost per credit. Just be sure that the credits will transfer to the next college of choice. I think it is an easier transition especialy for kids that come from small rural schools like ours instead of throwing the kids into huge class rooms with 400 other students right out of high school. RW

 

[DLD]

I'll second Road Warrior on that one.  My oldest is still just in the 10th grade, but he's already decided to go the junior college route, for pretty much the same reasons RW listed.  I did the same thing for the same reasons and I'm glad I did.  I had very little previous judging experience, but was able to make the team and was succesful enough to get a judging scholarship to a university which helped out a whole lot, too.  Even without the judging thing, I still like the junior college route though.

Oh and btw, Hey Road Warrior - long time no see!

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Hey DLD - old computer died a painful death - moved to the south place and just been generally too busy. Finally got a new computer and slowed down a little- good to be back!

 

[CJB]

I'll aagree woth both above posts.  Start somewhere smaller and get the basic stuff out of the way.  I went to Ohio State for a year, before coming home to go to a smaller school.  Still kicking myself for not starting at the smaller school and then moving on to OSU, but I was young and wouldn't listen to anyone.  Good luck to you and your son in the search for a school. (thumbsup)

 

[Show Heifer]

Coming from a recent student perspective:
I think it depends on your son. Is he outgoing and makes friends easily? Is he easily intimidated? A large school can be scary for a small town kid, but, they can be a wonderful experience if the student can jump in and take advantage of all they have to offer. A smaller school (not neccessarily a community school or 2 hr, but a smaller 4 year college) can be also be great. I attended a small (12,000) 4 year school and had a blast. I was in charge of a research farm division and took part in professor research from my freshman year. When I graduated, I had the option of going to a larger graduate school, or taking my 4 year BS degree and start a career. 
Honestly, and I mean no disrespect, as I think anyone who furthers their education is a hero, but from local kids that went to a 2 yr community college, they threw their time and money away. Why? They lacked focus and "socialized" too much as "it is just a community college. It doesn't count." So when their 2 years were up, rarely did they have enough credits to pass, plus their GPA wasn't high enough to get into a 4 year program without retaking courses. So that 4 year degree ends up taking at least 6.
Like I said, it really depends on your son and his personality. If he is a strong kid that likes people and doesn't wither under large crowds or "the unknown" I would lean toward a mid sized 4 year college. If he is intimidated by large crowds and big campuses, go with a community college, BUT....make sure, (MAKE SURE) he takes those 2 years SERIOUSLY, and not as a "vacation till real college.".  Do not let him fall into the "party like it is a 2 year college" like some kids I know!!
I wish him luck and congratulate him on continueing his education. And congratulations to you for raising a great sounding son!!

 

[jnm]

I can give arguments both ways as to small vs large schools (one child went small; other large and both did well). However do push him to get a four year degree. He thinks he knows what he wants but we all know things can change. If you have the four year degree there will be many more doors open to you.

 

[vet tech]

Part of her question was what kind of degree would be best to pursue considering his plans...anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

I'm currently going to a 4-year university for a major in animal science and I love it. I went to a small high school and I never really had too many friends and it was hard to find anyone with things in common with me. I excepted college to be the same but I was surprised at the variety of people who went there. Like when I was in high school, my sister and I were the only ones that showed cattle but in college, I've met people who also show livestock and raise cattle - just like me!

I was nervous about all the people when I first started but I actually find it nice now. It's also close so I can continue to work on my own simmental herd.

Good luck to your son!

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Coming from a recent student perspective:
I think it depends on your son. Is he outgoing and makes friends easily? Is he easily intimidated? A large school can be scary for a small town kid, but, they can be a wonderful experience if the student can jump in and take advantage of all they have to offer. A smaller school (not neccessarily a community school or 2 hr, but a smaller 4 year college) can be also be great. I attended a small (12,000) 4 year school and had a blast. I was in charge of a research farm division and took part in professor research from my freshman year. When I graduated, I had the option of going to a larger graduate school, or taking my 4 year BS degree and start a career. 
Honestly, and I mean no disrespect, as I think anyone who furthers their education is a hero, but from local kids that went to a 2 yr community college, they threw their time and money away. Why? They lacked focus and "socialized" too much as "it is just a community college. It doesn't count." So when their 2 years were up, rarely did they have enough credits to pass, plus their GPA wasn't high enough to get into a 4 year program without retaking courses. So that 4 year degree ends up taking at least 6.
Like I said, it really depends on your son and his personality. If he is a strong kid that likes people and doesn't wither under large crowds or "the unknown" I would lean toward a mid sized 4 year college. If he is intimidated by large crowds and big campuses, go with a community college, BUT....make sure, (MAKE SURE) he takes those 2 years SERIOUSLY, and not as a "vacation till real college.".  Do not let him fall into the "party like it is a 2 year college" like some kids I know!!
I wish him luck and congratulate him on continueing his education. And congratulations to you for raising a great sounding son!!

The idea that  only the kids who want to party go to a ju co is IMHO fallible. Yes there are those in ju co's that party like rock stars but they would be doing the same thing in a 4 year school. I know some from both institutions that have done so and left with out much if any education. My original point was to get the required credits out of the way at a cheaper cost and if he is wanting to pursue a livestock career when he is done with his schooling, there are some excellent ju co's with animal science and judging programs out there that he can participate in as well. RW

 

[Chris Bingham]

I know that here at Oklahoma State University you can choose Animal Science as your major, then they have many different options. They include livestock merchandising, business, marketing, and sales. So it will all depend on what he wants to do. I am pursueing an Animal Science with a business option.

 

[dori36]

We have been looking at which direction would be best for our son to persue. Here is some background. We live in Michigan and my my son really would like to work toward a goal of owning his own cow/calf herd at some point with an emphasis on show cattle. He realizes that his options might be somewhat limited in Michigan and might be willing to relocate to realize his dream. He also realizes he will probably have to get some sort of job before he can start out on his own.

We went to visit Michigan State this week which is where he kind of thought he wanted to go but is not so sure about the whole large 40,000+ student campus. Also not sure wether to try to get a 4 yr degree in Animal Science or possibly Agricultural Business or MSU has a AG tech program that is just 2 to 3 semesters with an internship.

There are not any community colleges here that I know of that offer Ag programs like there are in some other areas.

If anyone can comment on their opinions of education benefits, 4-yr vs 2-yr, in state, out of state etc. It will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

DLZ

I believe there is good and bad in any college situation.  We can discuss all day which scenario works best and everyone will have something to add.  I would offer that if his goal is to stay in the cattle industry that he should consider education in a state where there actually 'is' a cattle industry.  Kansas, Nebraska, ND, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, etc.  I can't recommend strongly enough Casper College in Casper, WY.  It's been a 2 yr college and still offers good 2 yr programs, but a student can also continue on for a 4 yr degree from the University of Wyoming if that's what they want.  Show cattle?  Casper College fields winning judging teams year after year at the biggest livestock expos in the country.  t never hurts to "hang out" with movers and shakers in the business and he'll find them in the Rocky Mountain states, among others. I don't think it's solely about 2 yr or 4 yr.  I think it's more about what does he want to pursue and how best to get there.  Best of luck to him!

 

[simtal]

Honestly, and I mean no disrespect, as I think anyone who furthers their education is a hero, but from local kids that went to a 2 yr community college, they threw their time and money away. Why? They lacked focus and "socialized" too much as "it is just a community college. It doesn't count." So when their 2 years were up, rarely did they have enough credits to pass, plus their GPA wasn't high enough to get into a 4 year program without retaking courses. So that 4 year degree ends up taking at least 6.
Like I said, it really depends on your son and his personality. If he is a strong kid that likes people and doesn't wither under large crowds or "the unknown" I would lean toward a mid sized 4 year college. If he is intimidated by large crowds and big campuses, go with a community college, BUT....make sure, (MAKE SURE) he takes those 2 years SERIOUSLY, and not as a "vacation till real college.".  Do not let him fall into the "party like it is a 2 year college" like some kids I know!!

As recent graduate of the same type of program, I concur with show heifer.  Juco's can be great, but you need to be careful. You can't make a living or major in  judging or showing cattle.  I say get the best education you can afford. As far as the whole animal science ag business thing, they are not one and the same.  Animal science usually requires chemistry, which is not easy but extremely valuable.  Chemistry is your calling card most places.  Business is more economics, math, business classes, etc..  Definitely the easier road, but probably less earning potential. If you can get both applied knowledge and some basic science in your background, you are a good job candidate.

 

[dutch pride]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions so far. As to a community college; what are your suggestions, one that has some sort of Ag focus or just a general education?  Also can anyone recommend a community college with an Ag focus near Michigan? Not that we are opposed to going further but want to make the best choice possible.

DLZ

 

[Beach Limousin]

As a college student who is attending a community college, I could not imagine walking into a class with as many students as I graduated with. That is me, but it is up to your son. All of my friends have went to 2yr schools (not the same one) and did great. I think if a kid is going to party and have fun instead of going to school, then it doesn't matter where they go. Just my opinions.

 

[knabe]

survey job availability and location. 

have more than one path in case one doesn't work out. 

people who have cattle, have them for a variety of reasons.

it's a tough business, subject to swings, therefore causing stress.

market research in addition to interest research.

sometimes when you go to school, you find something, someone interesting.

when at school, keep away from victimization studies, or you will become distracted.

 

[Dusty]

I did the community college thing for 2.5 years then did a year at a 4 year school to get my Bachelors in Ag Business.  I learned more at community college than I did at University.  I just knew that a 4 year degree was going to open more doors than a 2 year degree so thats why I got it.  As far as partying goes 2 or 4 year doesn't matter at all... Kids are gonna party no matter where they're at.  oh yeah and going to community college is a helluva lot cheaper than university.  I took 100 credits at Juco and only had to take 30 at university to graduate.  It was definetly the econo route.  Oh and you can party and still do good in school.  it's not one or the other you just have to know how to balance it all out.  the best advice i can give is to go to class.  If you show up every day and are somewhat attentive most professors will work with you if you are struggling.  If you don't show up they think you don't care so why should they.  Another thing, don't get hung up on getting a degree from a prestigous school, when it comes to the real world after you get your first job employers don't care where you went to school what your GPA was or anything like that.  In real life a piece of paper and good grades doesn't do anything for you other than help you get that first job after that its what you can bring to the table as far as actual work and delivering results.

 

[knabe]

 Another thing, don't get hung up on getting a degree from a prestigous school, when it comes to the real world after you get your first job employers don't care where you went to school what your GPA was or anything like that.  

having had the opportunity to hire many people, i would have to say that the non-berkeley/stanford kids did the best.  i think i had only 1 that was from berkeley that was outstanding.  seems like if they are good from those schools, they will go on to graduate school, rather than stop with B.S.  the kids from other schools seemed to be more appropriately matched skills expectation wise.

hungry is as hungry does.  after a while, you get tired about hearing "at stanford/berkeley. . . ."

 

[the_resa86]

If your child really would like to go to MSU they have a new partnership set up for the Ag Tech programs with Lansing Community College. The student takes all the classes at MSU but they end up with an Associates degree from LCC, in the past they just received a certificate from MSU. I believe the Ag Tech proram at MSU is good for people who want the smaller class atmosphere. I think it is set up so that general graduation requirements are fairly large classes, just like at any other university, but the classes that are specific to their program are quite small and usually the kids in the program get to know each other quite well. This is just something to keep in mind if they want to stay closer to home and go to MSU.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

in my opinion, if he is unsure right now I would have him go to a 2 year school, but make sure to ask what kind of classes will transfer to a 4 year.  That way he will be able to transfer to a good 4 year school after he gets his asst. degree.  I know that we have some really good schools down here in Kansas for Animal Science.  I went to Butler County Community College.  They have a really good program for ag with its own campus just for ag classes.  Then I went to Kansas State University.  Proably one of the best animal science schools in the nation.