Commercial Shorthorn Bull

[JTM]

JTM thanks for the clarification on the Rea I did not look at the 1.2 per 100 but actual size at yearling wich at first glance is small but when you take into account feed and Rea per 100 he is acceptable.  I think this post is very useful. It shows that different management practices can result in operations willing to assume various levels of risk in order to achieve their goals.

Thanks for the reply. I think this shows the importance of having contemporary groups. I know our bulls were fed like 3-5 lbs. of grain after weaning for several months with free choice hay and mineral. Then they were bumped up from there but it is a way of raising them for longevity and for the range instead of for looks and marketability like we are so use to. Thank you for understanding that. It also holds true when we look at these actual numbers. Yes my actual weaning weights are low and my yearling weights are really low compared to other Shorthorns but we give them very little grain to get them to breeding time. Most of my yearling heifers are weighing 700-800 lbs. right now. What are everyone else's weighing?

 

[shortyjock89]

Our Angus bulls averaged 1390 at 12 Mos actual, and our Shorthorns about 1310.

Didn't have enough Angus heifers to make a real average this year, but our shorthorns average around 1175, but their growth tapers off significantly for the next few months while the bulls tend to keep going.

 

[Duncraggan]

Just wanted to voice my opinion on the birth weight issue. We are the breeders of Wiseguys bull so maybe I am a little biased. I don't think you can compare the birth weights of a bull born in Saskatchewan and one born in Kansas. Everything else being equal the one in Kansas will alway weigh less at birth. I would suggest at least 10 lbs less. Now that may still be too big for some people but we routinely use Shorthorn (and Hereford and Charolais) bulls with birth weights up to 110 lbs on our commercial cows with no trouble at all. I would think our cow herd is run under range conditions. Our cows calve on grass, with little or no supervision, and we sleep very well at night. We don't get the weaning and yearling weights wiseguy is showing but that is probably just a case of different management practises
I am not suggesting everybody should do what we do but I am not willing to settle for a 75 lb calf out of a 1200-1400 lb cow. I like to see my bull calves weighing at least close to 90 lbs at birth or I start to think the cow has taken the year off.

In my opinion, the birth weight is the lesser factor to calving ease. I moved farms about 9 years ago and my birthweights from the same sires jumped about 7kg (15lbs). My calves now average about 41kg (90lbs). My cows have an average weight at weaning of 537kg (1181lbs). It was a move of about 300km (187m). My calving has not suffered at all.
The bigger calves, in the environment, definitely have more vigour at birth and more growth to weaning.
To put into perspective, here are a number of bulls used in the USA/Canada, and also in my herd, showing the average birth weight and number of calves in my herd respectively:
Sprys All Gold D052 39kg/86lbs (56)
Homedale Accomplished 42kg/92lbs (5)
JSF Gauge 137W 35kg/77lbs (19)
Shadybrook Scotty 83K 38kg/84lbs (10)
Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W 43kg/95lbs (4)
Shadybrook Powerplay 802U 42kg/92lbs ( 8 )
Saskvalley Yesterday 116Y 38kg/84lbs (1)
I received 30 more doses of Saskvalley Yesterday in my tank a week ago and have ordered another 30 doses of JSF Gauge to be delivered in July 2016 for my October TAI programme.
Carl, I hope I have made the right decision here, I put in 17 doses of Yesterday, of my first consignment of 30, on Monday. I used a few doses in 2015, only about 5, so will expect a few more calves in July, if successful. I have about a 60% hit rate on my TAI programme.
Without any prejudice, the Shadybrook Powerplay 802U and Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W calves have been the worst as far as fleshing ability goes and I have dumped the remaining Powerplay semen. I will give the Fighter Pilot one more chance. I was stuck when I couldn't get more Scotty or any Major Leroy at the time and settled for my third and fourth choices. I should have just put my herdsires in.
That is the joy of farming Shorthorns in this corner of the world, no choice!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Duncraggen-thats a very good simple anaysis of the bulls-and the kind alot of commercial guys will relate to.I dont remember how many threds ago-the deal was to bring pure un-aldulterated Shorthorns to the commercial guy even tho they dont exist.THEY DONT BUY BLUE SKY-but I think they will react to examples put before them. These guys are used to Angus curves-and purebred Shorthorns WILL NOT GET THAT DONE RIGHT NOW-although they evoving out of the currant AND VWERY REAL-WARRENTED EPD nightmare fairly quickly here.. However-I also said-"show em the cross breds"- which nobody responded to at all-Because thats CROSSBREEDING-and crossing hallowed ground into other breeds. Then ALL OF A SUDDEN-Josh Moreland who has been doing just that but not for a long time -mentioned that none of those Angus Shorthorn bull calves will be steered-BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO USE THEM Thats very posistive as far as IM concerned.-Thats why I did an unsolicited ad on 12 extremely good Angus Shorthorn cross hiefers- I MAINTAIN THAT THE WAY YOU PROVE YOUR CATTLE IS IN THE PUDDING. And all the agonizing over statistics and purety ,and nativity for the most part are out of the picture once the commercial guys see the cross breds first hand:and know they are usefull.Its gotta be the same everywhere-keep it simple-and show em whats what. Your opinion would be appreciated O0

 

[JTM]

Our Angus bulls averaged 1390 at 12 Mos actual, and our Shorthorns about 1310.

Didn't have enough Angus heifers to make a real average this year, but our shorthorns average around 1175, but their growth tapers off significantly for the next few months while the bulls tend to keep going.

Thanks for sharing. I use to have numbers like these also when I creep fed my cattle and fed them hard after weaning until 12 months of age. We only creep about two weeks to get them acclimated. If we pushed our cattle we could get better numbers but I will leave that up to the commercial feedlot.

Duncraggan, thanks for sharing that information. That is always interesting to compare bull average bw's in a herd. I found it very interesting that you commented that "The bigger calves, in the environment, definitely have more vigor at birth and more growth to weaning." I really find this statement fascinating. In my experience the statement that bigger calves have more vigor has never been true. Time and time again we have witnessed the smaller BW calves have way more vigor at birth than the larger BW calves. Are you seeing situations of lower BW calves that are somewhat malnourished and that is why they are light and not vigorous? I'm really at a loss on this one because your description is completely the opposite of my experience.

 

[wiseguy]

Josh could you post your kill data from the great state feed out? I would enjoy looking through it. Also, my lighter calves always have more vigor up to about 90 lbs. Bigger than that and they are always dead heads.

 

[JTM]

Josh could you post your kill data from the great state feed out? I would enjoy looking through it. Also, my lighter calves always have more vigor up to about 90 lbs. Bigger than that and they are always dead heads.

That is pretty much my experience too! We like to call them "big dumb bull calves" or "brain dead" when they get too big. Here is the quick and simple version that is also on my website of the 2015 great state feed out results. We had pretty much the youngest group of calves out there as you can see with the average of 13 months old at kill. It was our first year and we are trying to tweak some things with them this year and feed them a bit longer. If you want more information you can message me.

 

[oakview]

I'm going to quit registering my cattle.  I just don't fit in.  Instead of pleated jeans, alligator boots, and monogrammed shirts I wear sweat pants, tennis shoes, and an old T-shirt.  I feel so inadequate.

 

[JTM]

I'm going to quit registering my cattle.  I just don't fit in.  Instead of pleated jeans, alligator boots, and monogrammed shirts I wear sweat pants, tennis shoes, and an old T-shirt.  I feel so inadequate.

It's going to be alright oakview. In this day and age we can all be internet cowboys!  <cowboy>

 

[shortyjock89]

I don't even have cowboy boots

 

[phillse]

count me out too, i usually wear work boots or rubber boots, old blue jeans and a raggedy t-shirt