Conception rates on Sexed Semen

[CAB]

  Linnettejane, I hope that everything goes the way that you want it to & please don't take this as being critical,but if I were you, the next time that you are in this situation, don't go off of the time that the cow/heifer started standing, rather go off of when they are done standing and go into their calm/worn out stage. This will be the time to breed. Not to discredit your tech either, but he/she can't really tell you if "she felt right". All he can do is tell you whether or not he/she put the semen where it needed to be placed easily and with confidence. Think about it, what else is their reply going to be to you? As technicians, we are very very dependant on your heat detection skills. We are going to breed your cows/heifers when you tell us and we are going to do our very best job @ putting the semen on target period. Again, please don't take this as criticism. I honestly want you to have the best results possible. The 12 hour breed rule after observing standing heat is generic. They have to have a standard rule of thumb to tell PPL or to get them started AIing. You can do better than this by fine tuning your skills to get in sync with each individual. Others feel welcome to agree or disagree with this info please. Brent

 

[Bawndoh]

  Linnettejane, I hope that everything goes the way that you want it to & please don't take this as being critical,but if I were you, the next time that you are in this situation, don't go off of the time that the cow/heifer started standing, rather go off of when they are done standing and go into their calm/worn out stage. This will be the time to breed. Not to discredit your tech either, but he/she can't really tell you if "she felt right". All he can do is tell you whether or not he/she put the semen where it needed to be placed easily and with confidence. Think about it, what else is their reply going to be to you? As technicians, we are very very dependant on your heat detection skills. We are going to breed your cows/heifers when you tell us and we are going to do our very best job @ putting the semen on target period. Again, please don't take this as criticism. I honestly want you to have the best results possible. The 12 hour breed rule after observing standing heat is generic. They have to have a standard rule of thumb to tell PPL or to get them started AIing. You can do better than this by fine tuning your skills to get in sync with each individual. Others feel welcome to agree or disagree with this info please. Brent

Absolutely agree.  Some people can get owly with me when they are not happy with their conception rates.  I never really do know forsure if the cattle were in heat.  I just have to believe the producer.  The only thing that gives me the slightest idea is if their backend looks like it has been beat up from being ridden for a while.  In all honesty, even if I did my job PERFECTLY, but the cow was never detected properly, then she still wont conceive.  Now who is the producer going to blame that on......lol!  I too, have a producer who asks me with every singe cow, "how she felt".  I just kinda mumble "good".  If I were to go into detail about what shape of cervix she had or whatever, it would just be one more rediculous and unnecessary thing for him to freak out about.  This particular guy is a perfectionist, and is always trying to do better.  He even asks me if the cow presented mucus, and asks me to palpate her some to get the mucus to come out, just so he can see that she was "good".  Yeesh!  Some cows, are exceptionally easy to pass through the cervix, and sometimes the cow feels really, almost hot inside.  Those are signs of heat, but not signs you can utilize as a producer.

 

[CAB]

If you want to ask the tech whether or not he is sure that he/she was on target and how hard is was to get there, that would be a question that he/she should be able to answer. It really doesn't matter a whole bunch whether it was hard getting there either as long as they are confident that they were on target. A little habit that I have, is when I pull the gun back out of the cow, I always tip it to the side sort of to put a little pressure on the tip of the gun while pulling it out, I can easily feel the 3 rings of the cervix. If you want to feel that, you could ask your tech if he/she would mind if you try to feel the rings. If you can feel the rings, chances are that he/she was in the "sweet spot". Another thing to watch, is how fast he/she deposits semen. It should not be real fast or too slow. I would guesstimate 5 seconds. I move the tip around as I deposit the semen. These are just some of my quirks. I'm sure others have their own superstitions as well. Good Luck, Brent

 

[jbh]

well, heres what i did...on 4/9 we put in cdirs and gave a shot, on 4/16 we pulled cdirs and gave another shot...then i started watching for heats...and we bred off of standing heats...i used sexed heifer gus on a virgin heifer(bred saturday night) and a 9 year old cow(bred this morning)...i know they dont recommend them on mature cows...but i had spent the past 3 days checking my cows every 2 hours...so i pretty much knew exactly when they started standing and needed to be bred...and i had deal with my hubby...i do the checking , get the time right, and its a strong heat, i can use the sexed semen on my old cow...if i wasnt quite sure about the exact time, the heat wasnt that strong, or we couldnt get our tech to come at the 12 hour mark, then i use jpj...needless to say, my ai guy was here at 530 this morning breeding at the 12 hour mark......and he said everything felt exactly like it was supposed to...sooooo....ill let you know in 3 weeks what happens

Did your cow come back in or did she settle????  Been wanting to try this myself!

Juli's post was right on with my experience last year on our NO BULL breds.......I actually got along better with the sexed SOS than I did the normal semen of other bulls......I think quality is the issue here....you know what you're getting!!!  even though it's in a smaller amount.

The other issue for bull owners is the cost to produce....with SOS it took approximately 300 regular units to produce 15-5mil and 30-2mil.  If you compare retail apples to retail apples....that makes the cost per unit dang high!

We JUST sexed Power 2 Change yesterday and had remarkable results.....he froze 65 units of sexed female 2ml off of one collection.....we were expecting(hoping) for about 10 units!  If anyone wants to try some sexed 2ml, you can have it at $80/unit......it costs $65 to produce!  We're just really wanting to get a good first calf crop on the ground to have something to promote with next year.

 

[simtal]

  I never really do know forsure if the cattle were in heat.  I just have to believe the producer.  The only thing that gives me the slightest idea is if their backend looks like it has been beat up from being ridden for a while. 

  He even asks me if the cow presented mucus, and asks me to palpate her some to get the mucus to come out, just so he can see that she was "good". 

IMO, when you put the gun in and mucus comes out, that's a tell tale sign she's in heat. 

 

[linnettejane]

well the heat detecting stickers are on and the clean up bull is turned out...this is the weekend...we'll see what happens...im keeping my fingers crossed!  and  (angel)
21 days will actually be tomorrow...

 

[ATOZ]

Funny you mention heat detectors.... We put an embryo in a cow and put on a heat detector and it came off on day 18, needless to say I was not watching until day 19    Could she have came in early?? Today is 22 and no action.

 

[stumpy]

Linnette I most of all hope that everything goes great for you. Customer results are my guage of sucess. We have had very good results of sexed matings. Please let me know how things turn out.

Thank-you,
Jeff

 

[ZNT]

I will have to do some checking around, but it seems like the sexed semen would be good to try using during IVF (In Vitro Fertilization)  The lower concentration of viable sperm cells could be made up for by reducing the number of eggs fertilized.  The lab I am working with already separates out the sperms from the extender and applies a specific concentration of sperm to each egg.  I may be wrong though if the sexed semen will work on this process.

 

[linnettejane]

today was a good day...no action! 

 

[CAB]

ATOZ, it's my experience that there are a lot more 18 day cows than 22 day cows. The most common heat cycles are 18 to 21 days. What are others experiences with heat intervals? Brent

 

[Jill]

Funny you mention heat detectors.... We put an embryo in a cow and put on a heat detector and it came off on day 18, needless to say I was not watching until day 19    Could she have came in early?? Today is 22 and no action.

Now you realize that when you put that embryo in your are already on day 7 so you would only be looking for day 14 from there.

 

[CAB]

I thought about the same thing Jill, but thought that they were counting from the heat cycle, otherwise you are correct.
  Zane please let us know how you get along with your IVF pregnancies. I had a guy tell me that he would not ever do it again. Not good results and very costly. Of coarse if you don't get good conception rates, it gets expensive fast.

 

[linnettejane]

still no action... (angel)

(and fingers still crossed!  knocking on wood...you name it, im doin' it)

 

[Doc]

  Zane please let us know how you get along with your IVF pregnancies. I had a guy tell me that he would not ever do it again. Not good results and very costly. Of coarse if you don't get good conception rates, it gets expensive fast.

I can assure you that I won't do it again until they make a lot more progress. Perfect example is the last try with Trans Ova , put 4 IVF in their recips & get one preg. Might just be me & my luck , but the other reason is that Trans Ova was the only one doing it & I don't like doing business with them. I think someone has posted on here about a new outfit doing & I'm glad to see someone give T.O. , some competition.

 

[ZNT]

Vitrogen USA provides an option where you only pay for confirmed pregnancies.  I believe through this year, they are $500 per confirmed pregnancy at 45-60 days.  That price includes the ultrasound evaluation of both the donor and the recips, the collection, the maturation and fertilization of the embryos, the transfer, and the follow-up ultrasound pregnancy check at 45-60 days.  This takes some confidence in your processes to provide a guarantee like that.  Don't quote me on this, but I believe they are getting between 60-80% conception on their fresh transfers, and about half of that with frozen transfers of IVF embryos.  You would have to contact Dr. Ables to get the exact details of all their IVF options.

 

[inthebarnagain]

  Linnettejane, I hope that everything goes the way that you want it to & please don't take this as being critical,but if I were you, the next time that you are in this situation, don't go off of the time that the cow/heifer started standing, rather go off of when they are done standing and go into their calm/worn out stage. This will be the time to breed. Not to discredit your tech either, but he/she can't really tell you if "she felt right". All he can do is tell you whether or not he/she put the semen where it needed to be placed easily and with confidence. Think about it, what else is their reply going to be to you? As technicians, we are very very dependant on your heat detection skills. We are going to breed your cows/heifers when you tell us and we are going to do our very best job @ putting the semen on target period. Again, please don't take this as criticism. I honestly want you to have the best results possible. The 12 hour breed rule after observing standing heat is generic. They have to have a standard rule of thumb to tell PPL or to get them started AIing. You can do better than this by fine tuning your skills to get in sync with each individual. Others feel welcome to agree or disagree with this info please. Brent

I absolutely agree with this.  Last year we used the tattletales on some of the cows and heifers.  Everyone that was bred 4 to 6 hours after the last stand stuck, We got 12 out of 15 AI'd, we used the tattletales on 8 of them and got all 8 of them stuck. 

 

[linnettejane]

tattletales???

well...so far, ok...have only had one come back in that we had ai'd to jakes proud jazz....if i get 5 out of 6 to stick...i will be very happy!  so far both the sexed gus's are still safe!  (angel)

 

[linnettejane]

ok...the reason we werent 6 for 6 is my fault....its really been bugging me and i went back and was looking over my records...i had one come in at 7am and another at 12pm...we bred them both that evening at 9pm...i was trying to split the difference between the two and save my tech a trip, but i think that cost me...we hit the 12pm cow too early, only 9 hours into standing...she's the one that came open...if i would have just stuck to my own rule (12 hours) id probably have been 6 for 6...well...thats the way i see it anyway...