Cool Room Alternative

[Tallcool1]

We have a steer this year that has developed a nasty respiratory problem.  He is feeling better, but we are afraid to put him in the cooler.  I am afraid that the fluctuation in air temperature will just get him sick.  I just don't think his lungs will tolerate 50 degree air all day, and 90+ degree air all night.

This is what we are thinking of doing.

We are going to dig about 10" of dirt out of a box stall.  Then we are going to bury a very tight grid of continuous loop 1/2" water line in the floor of the stall.  We will bury it in sand and pack the sand with a soil compactor.  Then we will bed on top of the sand.  The actual grid will be relatively small (50 square feet).

We will fill up an old deep freeze with a salt water solution (brine) and chill that as cold as we can keep it (0-5 degrees F), and slowly circulate the solution through the buried water lines.  If my math is correct, we should be able to keep the ground temperature at around 40 degrees, especially considering we will keep it dark and run fans and misters in the stall. 

This is basically the way that a hockey rink is frozen, although quite a bit more technical.

So basically, he will breath air that is about 70 degrees, but lay on a surface that is 40 degrees.

I know the obvious answer is to just turn up the temperature in our cooler, but that won't work for the other 3 that are going in there.

Has anyone ever tried this?  Will it work?  What do I need to look out for?

By the way, if this works I am going to do the same thing in our cooler!

Thanks

 

[faycopa]

Sounds reasonable... kudos for effort  (clapping)
What will you use to control flow speed of brine solution ?
Must be a good steer ....

 

[GoWyo]

Are you going to have a big ice berg of frozen pee around your lines?  May need to put a liner over the coolant lines and figure out how to soak up all the urine.

 

[Tallcool1]

Yes, he is probably the best one we will ever own.  Well, that actually sounds pretty stupid.  If he was the best one we will ever have, he would be able to breath!

The frozen waste comment is a good one.  My plan is to wet down the sand, HOPING that it will freeze...although realistically it probably won't.  We will go through a lot of cedar fiber I am sure.

The flow will be controlled by the pump.  It will be a variable flow pump. 

After I posted the question last night, I thought about it some more.  I guess my biggest fear is that the deep freeze won't keep up, and will be circulating 70 degree water in a matter of a couple hours.

 

[GoWyo]

If that freezer really works you will have a box stall sized urine-ice hockey rink  <party>
With a variable flow pump, will it adjust the flow depending on the temperature of the water going into the freezer or the water in the freezer?  You might consider using some of the Tek Foil (or whatever it is that is laid down before concrete is poured to insulate from the ground) to insulate between the ground and your cooling system pipes.

 

[Tallcool1]

If that freezer really works you will have a box stall sized urine-ice hockey rink  <party>
With a variable flow pump, will it adjust the flow depending on the temperature of the water going into the freezer or the water in the freezer?  You might consider using some of the Tek Foil (or whatever it is that is laid down before concrete is poured to insulate from the ground) to insulate between the ground and your cooling system pipes.

I'm thinking that we will vary the flow according to the temp of the brine in the return line...so the temp of the brine in the freezer would be the answer.

The foil idea is a really good one!  I didn't think of that but it makes really good sense.

The urine could be a real issue. We will have to just monitor and see.

Thanks for the feedback. Good thinking!

 

[Freddy]

From the feedback from my customers using cedar fiber you shouldn't have urine get down to your coils ....  One guy in particular said he used the fiber for calves in show barn ,then his daughters put calving cows in it during the winter and he thought he would proably have to replace dirt under neath the figer from the calving cows... Said he couldn't believe how great that soil looked under the fiber ...

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

The one think is maint. Brine = rust and very quickly. So you are really going to have to keep up with the maint on the system like a salt water boat. Otherwise in a couple years you might be replacing everything due to corrosion. I have seen a couple older ice rink systems and they all look like they are ready to fall apart. I think there might be a solution they are using in them that is less corrosive but not sure off the top of my head. You could concrete over the coils that would give you ground insulation and once conrete is initially cooled it would stay cooler longer with less work on the system to keep cold. Plus slope it so it would drain.

 

[Tallcool1]

The one think is maint. Brine = rust and very quickly. So you are really going to have to keep up with the maint on the system like a salt water boat. Otherwise in a couple years you might be replacing everything due to corrosion. I have seen a couple older ice rink systems and they all look like they are ready to fall apart. I think there might be a solution they are using in them that is less corrosive but not sure off the top of my head. You could concrete over the coils that would give you ground insulation and once conrete is initially cooled it would stay cooler longer with less work on the system to keep cold. Plus slope it so it would drain.

I have never seen an ice rink, but I am sure you have a good point.  We are using 100% plastic because of cost.  Research taught me that the best thing to use is copper because of its ability to quickly conduct heat or cold in this case.  My problem is that copper is so expensive.

I like the concrete idea! 

 

[aarcher8774]

Ok, a few idea's... Lines through the concrete would make it the coldest for sure and probably the most efficient. That being said, if it gets cold enough like a ice pack on skin the steer is going to loose circulation of blood and will start being stiff in its joints. Don't know sounds like a good idea if that doesn't happen. would love to know if you do follow through. I would not use copper due to the fact of how cold it could get..
PEX tubing would be the best, used it in my house and garage for hydronic heating... <beer> <beer> <cowboy>

 

[Cham2135]

It's basically the same concept as in-floor-heat,just cold  (lol)

We have used in the floor heat in our house and shop... We love it. Just make sure it's laid through out. The concrete idea is excellent. It's kinda the concept as the old brick barns, keep the cold in and the heat out (vise versa)


Koodos for thinking out of the box!

 

[jwfarms]

Floor heating is very efficient, I am curious how well cooling does.  Let us know how it turns out.  I contemplated doing floor heating in part of the barn we are building.