Cow Problem, need 2nd opinion

[sizzler14]

I went to go check my cows tonight, and as I went down to the calving lot, I noticed my bull walking around the outside of it. As I looked in, there was a cow riding another cow. There are 5 cows in the lot, 3 were eating hay and the other 2 were the ones riding each other. The one cow had a calf 37 days ago. The other cow is do to calve in 9 days. The cow that's due to calve had a small ball of slim at the end of her vagina. We can tell she is heavy with calf, as she looks like she swallowed a barrel. There were both riding each other and the cow that is pregnant followed the not pregnant cow where ever she went. With my bull there, I know something was going on. Who do you think was in season? I have been back and forth on it all day. I have never had a cow cycle back that fast if it was the cow that wasn't pregnant. I have had then cycle back at 45 days but never 37. Or was the pregnant cow having a false heat or giving off a certain odor that smells like they are coming in because she is very close to calving and maybe something inside her is changing and caused it? I don't know, I an puzzled. Can anyone offer  an educated guess? Thanks Also the cow that wasn't pregnant was not sliming or anything

 

[cowman 52]

Testosterone and estrogen balance changes closer to calving.  May be that but I bet you had a hot cow also.

 

[HAB]

Our cows typically cycle back within 30 days, so I would say your cow that calved was cycling.  We have had heavy breds ride the hot cows like crazy.  As was stated the hormones are raging.

I would write it down, and watch her in 18 days.

 

[Hilltop]

I also think your cow that calved was cycling. We had the same cow here cycle in less than 30 days 3 years in a row now and the shortest time was 19 days. Pretty nice to see

 

[CWshorthorns]

In our herd i would bet that the cow with calf 37 days old is in heat. We also have a lot of the cows will act like they are in heat about week 10 days before she is going to calf.

 

[leanbeef]

The cow with the 37-day-old calf was obviously in heat. We've seen cows cycle as early as three weeks after calving, and a lot of our cows will be in heat around the 30 day mark. Your cow that's due to calve soon is hormonal, and it's typical for pregnant cows to behave that way during late gestation. The mucous you saw is just her body preparing to calve soon. They'll do that when they engage in a lot of activity & riding.

 

[HelenH]

Agree with above posts.  I strongly suggest separating pregnant cows that act that way, from other cycling cows.  If she has a stillborn calf, you may have yourself to blame. 

 

[hamburgman]

Agreed the 37 day cow is in heat.  Cows that are getting close to calving are sometimes the best gomer bulls you can find.  Had a cow cycle back at 10 days once and settle, lost money on that bet.

 

[Woodland Farms Show Cattl]

I went to go check my cows tonight, and as I went down to the calving lot, I noticed my bull walking around the outside of it. As I looked in, there was a cow riding another cow. There are 5 cows in the lot, 3 were eating hay and the other 2 were the ones riding each other. The one cow had a calf 37 days ago. The other cow is do to calve in 9 days. The cow that's due to calve had a small ball of slim at the end of her vagina. We can tell she is heavy with calf, as she looks like she swallowed a barrel. There were both riding each other and the cow that is pregnant followed the not pregnant cow where ever she went. With my bull there, I know something was going on. Who do you think was in season? I have been back and forth on it all day. I have never had a cow cycle back that fast if it was the cow that wasn't pregnant. I have had then cycle back at 45 days but never 37. Or was the pregnant cow having a false heat or giving off a certain odor that smells like they are coming in because she is very close to calving and maybe something inside her is changing and caused it? I don't know, I an puzzled. Can anyone offer  an educated guess? Thanks Also the cow that wasn't pregnant was not sliming or anything

My buddy Jim was just telling me last week that he had a Holstein heifer a few years back that calved out on pasture and couldn't get her caught, was then preg checked later in the year because she never cycled. Turned out the bull bred her 2 days after she calved and carried a set of twins full term! Or seemingly full term. So anyway, point is they can cycle back very quick depending on fertility condition weather etc...

 

[RyanChandler]

Here I am shaking my head as I read down , saying no way!  I used to never take a bull away and without a doubt, my cows would calve nearly exact same time every year.  Over several several years, I might have had a couple gain a month but never two.  If youre pushing enough feed to a cow for her to start cycling that quickly, I sure hope you're taking advantage of her extra calves over her lifetime.  No reason to ever seperate them, its cleary natural behavior.

 

[BTDT]

Cows that are cared for will cycle back within 30 days.  So, as mentioned before, the cow that has already calved was in heat.
Cows also alternate which side they ovulate on, so sometimes a bred cow will ovulate from the opposite side of the pregnancy and show signs of heat, sometimes they will even get bred on that "heat" (I have had one but that is the explaination of the rare cow that calves 30-45 days after calving the first time). I have never heard of one doing this so late in pregnancy, as they usually do this early in the pregnancy.

I have moved cows up 45-60 days from year to year, so it is not unusual or even hard to accomplish. 

 

[RyanChandler]

Cows that are cared for will cycle back within 30 days. 

I have moved cows up 45-60 days from year to year, so it is not unusual or even hard to accomplish. 

Take this with a grain of salt newcomers. It's neither normal or usual. Most cows do not gain time from year to year.  Piles of research that will suggest cattle in the 5-5.5 BCS range are most productive/profitable.  Ask those gaining time what bcs their cattle are in.

 

[ejoe326]

XBAR is right. 

BTDT where did you get your 30 day number?  It is flat out wrong.  If that were the case special cow sales across the country would not be full of well cared for cows that got out of sync with the rest of the herd.  Not to mention these are animals not machines.  Factor in weather, potential calving difficulties, how hard she's milking, and the flat out unknown and you cannot say when a cow will cycle. 

One of the fall calvers came back in heat 2 days ago and jumped a cow that is AI'd for the 20th and will calve to her AI date.  The AI cow stood great.  In her case, she is extremely lazy and probably didn't feel like moving.  I have had several over the years stand when they are close.  One stood every 28 days and calved to her AI date.  That is why we ultrasound and/or preg everything even if we saw them in heat before they get on the trailer.

 

[BTDT]

I got that number from not only MY herd, but also herds in my neighborhood. If you look at calving intervals from the AAA, you will find that it isn't THAT uncommon.

You are right ejoe. Cows are NOT machines, and you can not predict when they will come into heat, exactly, but you can look at the data, and see that some cows, and even some breeds, will come into heat roughly 30 days post calving, depending on management, genetics, weather, etc.

Maybe that is why most cattleman pull bulls, so they will not be calving in extreme weather and get cows "out of sync".

XBAR - I would lean toward more the 5.5 BCS, but I didn't say anything about the economics of the situation. I simply stated it isn't that uncommon. 

 

[leanbeef]

One factor that we sometimes don't give enough credit is selection pressure for things like fertility. Herds that don't cull cows that calve every 15 months are going to have cows that calve every 15 months. Those of us who demand our cows stick to a 12-month calving interval, over time, develop a herd of females that WILL cycle pretty quickly after calving. It doesn't necessarily mean every one of those cows would settle if they were bred that soon, but cows that are cycling before breeding season starts WILL get bred faster than cows that are not. It doesn't mean a cow that doesn't cycle for 90 days isn't healthy or cared for, or that she's being mismanaged. If you don't want cows that don't calve on time, don't keep the ones that don't.

 

[PDJ]

Cows that are cared for will cycle back within 30 days. 

I have moved cows up 45-60 days from year to year, so it is not unusual or even hard to accomplish. 

Take this with a grain of salt newcomers. It's neither normal or usual. Most cows do not gain time from year to year.  Piles of research that will suggest cattle in the 5-5.5 BCS range are most productive/profitable.  Ask those gaining time what bcs their cattle are in.

I agree that it is not common, but part of the equation is that most cows that are gaining back time are late calving to begin with.  These cows weren't in there third trimester until the cold weather was done.  It is much more likely for them to return to a normal cycle after 45 to 60 days than one who was building a fetus when it was zero degrees out.

 

[hntwhitetail]

I had one move up 65 days this year.  She raised the largest heifer calf last year and had a nother heifer this year.  She is a pb simmi out of Dream On..... real good milker.  Back  on schedule.

 

[Limiman12]

My Daughter's heifer last year calved 7-10.  She was late because the bull she was in with had broke his penis and we did not notice......  She bred back first of Aug for a MAY 10 calf.  We were shocked and anticipated that it would be a false heat but we never saw her cycle again.  Very pleased to say the least, normally have a hard time keeping heifer where they are let alone moving up 60 days!

 

[leanbeef]

I agree that it is not common, but part of the equation is that most cows that are gaining back time are late calving to begin with.  These cows weren't in there third trimester until the cold weather was done.  It is much more likely for them to return to a normal cycle after 45 to 60 days than one who was building a fetus when it was zero degrees out.
[/quote]

I don't think this is necessarily true. And you're assuming every cow herd is on the same calving season, which for some people starts around February or March and ends when the last calf hits the ground...a lot of times the middle of summer. Not to mention the people who have a 12-month calving season. It takes a little more management and a little extra effort, but the benefits of a shorter calving season FAR outweigh the inconveniences. All cows should be on a nutritional plain that allows them to do the job they were hired to do. It requires more energy for that fall-calving cow nursing a calf through the winter and expected to breed back on time than it does for a cow that calves in April. At our place (southeastern United States), though, we're not trying to breed April calvers during summer heat. So assuming all cows have sufficient nutrition to meed their needs, do you think they all cycle on the same day post calving? They do not... And the reason is that fertility in every cow is not the same. It isn't always the same for one cow year after year, but generally speaking, we notice the same cows return to estrus very quickly every year...several of them within 30 days. Cows that don't cycle back on time don't get bred on time, and they don't calve on time.

 

[RyanChandler]

Fertility is a double edge sword as well.  Keep pushing the issue an you'll be in the same boat I was with the Gelbviehs- heifer calves getting knocked up at 4-6 months old.  I realize fertility and early maturity aren't necessarily synonymous, but its my experience that the more fertile they are, the earlier (in life) they'll start calving.