Cunia 602 = not a cunia, papers pulled

[P-F]

 

[miller6cc]

Who owns him?

 

[knabe]

at the time, was it a requirement for them to be bloodtyped/genotyped?

i think bloodtyping ends this year, which to me is an outrage, and a complicated lab supply issue as it basically terminates unverified sires and embryo's with only bloodtyped parents.  no cow can be bloodtyped that is dead and no tissue obtained.  SAD.

has anyone ever made an honest mistake?  how do we know deception was the case here.  what are the facts and motivation?

back then, it is understandable to breed cunia cunia cunia as a marketing plan.

 

[LazyGLowlines]

What about all his calves?  That can't be good.

 

[aj]

Is he a reg. Maine.

 

[beefy]

well what is he ? i have some heifer calves by him now what do i do with them? guess they are just mama cows now huh ? this registered game gets really confusing sometimes    :-\

 

[P-F]

He is owned by Greg Kroupa, but in Whitneys name b/c Greg is banned from AMAA

AMAA requires that a DNA sample or blood type be on hand prior to allowing progeny that result from AI to be registered, for some reason they let it slide, it wasnt until PHA and TH did they finally have to enforce the rule with  cunia 602


my calves should have never been allowed to be registered in the first place, it would have saved me a lot of trouble

What good are rules if you dont enforce them.

 

[knabe]

so does he type to something?  maybe they can still be registered?

 

[P-F]

He does not type to anything that they have come up with.they've been working on it since January I believe.

 

[knabe]

all markers for typed bulls should be available in pedigree viewing.

that's quite an old bull to make that mistake.

it sure would be nice if you could KNOW which bulls were successfully typed.  oh well.

 

[DL]

Oh man P-F so sorry about that - I know you liked/used the bull a bit. What a drag. Who "bred" the bull?

 

[afhm]

Kroupa bred him.

 

[yuppiecowboy]

Lets assume there was an honest mistake made somewhere along the line, like used Cunic instead of Cunia (heard of it happening) or something of that sort, how in the heck to do you go backwards to fix it and make it right all along the line? Cunia 602 has been around a while now, they have to pull ALOT of papers. What a mess.

 

[GONEWEST]

Lets assume there was an honest mistake made somewhere along the line, [/quote


(clapping)  (lol)  STOP IT,  YOU"RE KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[yuppiecowboy]

GW I understand completely your sentiments, that was my thought as well, except as I got to thinking about it, human error makes more sense to me than blatant fraud. The 602 cow has been hyped for a long time. I dont see her getting bred to Homer the Gomer. If I recall I remember offspring out of her and many old school bulls like Epinal, Draftpick, etc. If it isnt Cunia, what is it? He did DNA to the cow at least didnt he? Not that it would surprise me, but I dont see them just hanging a bloodline like that on some accidental stud begat of unknown sale barn parentage. It appears that cow was mated to a wide variety of bulls with success so why would they BS the sire on purpose?

I have no idea, dont know the people who raised him other than by reputation, but I assume they know enough to know better than to pull something that stupid, risky, and easily verified even pre DNA era when I dont know that there was that much to gain. Correct me if I am wrong, but the bull got popular because of his progeny, not a slick ad campaign, right? At that point if Kroupa would have said he was out of the clean up bull and 602, people still would have used him as long as he swore alot in the footnotes.

 

[DL]

YC - that's kind of funny - I had the same though - I have gotten several calls from people "ready to breed to flush" when they discovered that the amp they thought was Cunia was really Cunic - - not sure that Cunic has the "right stuff" to make a bull that was they popular but I wonder if he has been typed to rule out Cunic

 

[P-F]

Lets assume there was an honest mistake made somewhere along the line, like used Cunic instead of Cunia (heard of it happening) or something of that sort, how in the heck to do you go backwards to fix it and make it right all along the line? Cunia 602 has been around a while now, they have to pull ALOT of papers. What a mess.

Actually there are only about 12 that have been papered
most are mine, and I can see it being an honest mistake, I am more disappointed with the association not following there own rules

 

[SEA]

I would like to know the truth... who is the real sire and dam to Cunia 602?  I still have some in the tank.  How can we find out the truth?

I spoke to Greg Kroupa a couple years back before I first purchased some Cunia 602 semen.  He said that the bull was over 10 years old then and they were having a medical issue with him, can't remember what.  Greg was having some vet work done on him at that age just to keep him going.  He claimed that Cunia 602 was the best bull to use to make club calf replacement females, and he wanted to stock up some more semen.  He wasn't even openly promoting the bull (as in advertising), just wanted more semen for himself.  And he wasn't even cussing!

I wanted replacement females out of him and would not register them anyway. 

In some ways it could be better for some people,  if he is out of some other REGISTERED MAINE BULL, other than Cunia.  Maybe not the defects, and a different parentage line than Cunia.

However, I still agree with P-F, and the Maine Association, maybe someone could find out there reasons.

Go P-F!!

 

[Telos]

                                                                                    ??? ??? : ??? :
Is it possible that Cunia 602 was sired by Chill Factor since Kroupa used him on that cow too? Is there DNA on Chill Factor. Does the AMAA have it? Has anyone ever DNA tested their Chill Factor cows?  Does it really make any difference at this point? I can't tell you how many times someone has told me that one of those famous Cunia sons were actually sired by Platinum. Since literally thousands of cows are probably registered to these bulls, why doesn't the AMAA let it be, and just grandfather their registrations.

 

[knabe]

is powerplant or anything out of the DE 310 cow typed?  this may be a can of worms.

i see that powerplant is typed, both by blood and DNA.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=333294

platinum appears to be by blood.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=264170

here's chill factor.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=333811