Deerpark Leader13th

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Okotoks

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In Canada Deerpark Leader 13th(Dividend) semen was not available but Gordie Rattray, Raydur had a son, Green Ridge Dividend 253. 253 was out of Farview Robin so was an ET brother to Green Ridge Dividend 196. 253 left a lot of really thick deep bodied calves. The daughters had good udders. I don't see much mention of the13th anymore and he was more popular than Deerpark Improver when they were first imported. What was his influence in the US in the long run? The biggest influence in our herd with the13th was Deer Trail Nitro who was linebred to the13th.
 

mark tenenbaum

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First of all-I wish you had semen on Nitro-Ed Grathwohl and Lawrence Grathwohl were both my partners and friends for 15 plus years-I had about 20 females there-and in 1990-I believe I saw a Guiness female related to Nitro. Dividend is still probably the most influential Shorthorn breeding bull ever used on US cattle-including TPS Coronet Leader,his influencewill go on more or less indefinitely-as long as there are Shorthorn cattle here O0
 

GM

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Good topic...I'm curious what everyone thinks.  I always liked the Dividend bull.  He had a huge impact and shows up in a lot of pedigrees.  Do you have pictures of Nitro or the Green Ridge Bulls?

Trump has a lot of Leader 13 in him...his sire was out of a Dividend cow, and his dam went back to Dividend through CF Rambo and GR Dreamboat.  
 

CWshorthorns

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We have a cow that is sired by ss eastwood sired by AF DIVIDEND'S IMPACT, sired by deerparker leader 13 and she never miss a beat and she is 13 years old she prolly raises one of the best calfs year in and year our. She is AI to off road due the end of dec.
 

CWshorthorns

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WE also have a few cows that have GR dreamboat. Most all of our cows have old blood in them most all are 8-13 years old. We have breed some to AOD, OFF ROAD, MASSIVE.
 

mark tenenbaum

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You guys have those good 13 plus year old cows-man give me a break with: Off road and the homoginized big hardoing-rodeo-goldwalk(Ayatollah)genetics-If you have old Dividendbreeding - big cows: -try Free For All-first-Phildon JBS fringe,Studers -Shcmidts soul train,or Arsulu38 special Edition-Or the low BW EPD cattle FROM:Elbee,Sue (on here)Brockmueller Byland Dazzler Breeding,Y-Lazy y coatails breeding from Montana-or PARTICULARLY_FULLBLOOD CE MAINES LIKE CALBERTA CHINOOK.Ive been doing the Impeover -Dividend deal for 20 plus years-the preceding bulls are all clean as the borad of health-AND ARE DESIGNED THROUGH AT LEAST 17 YEARS OF BREEDING_FROM LINEBRED DIVIDEND BREEDING_TO DO THE DIV_IMPROVER CROSS_WITHOUT THE DEFORMATIES. IM sorry-Massive and some of the others are just not  thick enough-and your just wasting great potential genetics on what WILL MOST LIKELY BE-a dual looking (Ayatollah-Goldwalk gene) mediocre calf.If you are gonna satisfy anyone (commercial or otherwise) you need a BEEF animal that is thick,and Dividend breeding NEEDS MAINE-or variations there-of.GREATEST cross of themall,ask ROBERT ALDEN-they owned Dividend O0
 

justintime

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Seeing Dividend for the first time, is one of the memories I will have until I die. In the spring of 1978, we traveled to Mankato KS to Beef Genetics Research, Inc to see the Irish Shorthorn cattle they had imported. We had just imported our first 3 Irish cattle from Ireland. We spent two days at BGR, and saw all the cattle, exept for Dividend and Improver, as they were at Kabsu being collected. We drove over to Manhattan to see these bulls afterwards. It was a Sunday and there was no one around at Kabsu so we walked through the barns until we found them. I do not think I have ever seen a bull of any breed up to that time that impressed me as much as Dividend did. Improver was less impressive, and quite frankly of the six of us that viewed the bulls that day, all of us thought that Improver would be dead soon due to his posty legs and his inability to move around very easily. Guess we were all wrong as Improver lived for many years after this, and he did not seem to pass on his very straight rear wheels to his progeny.
We were so impressed with Dividend that we decided that we were going to try to purchase him, so I phoned Dick Judy and asked him if he would sell him. He said he would not sell him and would not even consider it. Two weeks after we returned home I received a letter from Judy in which he said that he had reconsidered and he would sell Dividend and about 500 straws of semen for $25,000. We discussed this and decided that we could bring several more head in from Ireland for this amount of money so we turned down his offer. Probably another veyr bad decision we made.

Okotoks is not totally correct when he says that no Dividend was ever brought into Canada. There actually was about 70 straws of Dividend and about 100 straws of Improver that made it into Canada. This semen was never promoted and most people found out about it by accident. Just a few weeks ago, I was cleaning out the semen from an old semen tank and I came upon 2 straws of Dividend. I think I purchased 20 straws of the 70 that came into Canada, but I never got a single calf from what I used. All it says on the straw is " roan Shorthorn bull" and it does not give a collection date, a name for the bull or the owner, nor does it say where it was collected. The Improver semen that came to Canada only said " red Shorthorn bull" on the straws as well.
 

Hilltop

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Back in 1982 Alden's brought up two sons of Old Dividend. One was a full brother to Impact that was purchased by Coyote and the other was purchased by Crestdale Shorthorns. Of coarse Harvey said he got the better of the two calves LOL!!  In 1988 when the bull was 6 years old we were able to purchase him. We did not run many cows then and we deceided to collect semen from him in 1990 and we sold him in 1992 and he was still as sound as any two year old. We try to AI a couple cows to him each year but never this year with fighting with wet and muddy conditions. He does not click with every cow but Crestdale had one of the most impressive set of females that I ever had seen in the mid 80's and that is one group of females that I will always remember.
 

justintime

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I had a Dividend daughter that was out of an Improver X Ball Dee Perfect Count cow back in the mid 80s that would have been a classic model cow for today's beef industry. At the time, most who saw her commented that she should be bigger framed, but I loved her thickness and capacity so I flushed her a few times. When one of the semen tanks I had, decided to rupture and I lost everything in it, I lost 28 embryos from this cow that were mostly sired by Irish Mist. I also lost about 150 vials of Pheasant Creek Leader 4th and almost all the Irish Mist semen we had remaining. A couple years later, when Irish Mist semen was selling at auction at $400 per straw, I could have cried.

This Dividend daughter was polled, dark roan and she had a flawless udder. Some of the Dividend daughters did not have great udders, however I believe much of this came from the cows he was bred too. We have pictures of Dividend's dam in Ireland, that show her having a beautiful udder. I do wish I had some genetics from this cow today. She was one of the very good ones. I would love to try Dividend on some of today's genetics as I think it would work very well.
 

Jacob B

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Just influence alone in the breed, I can remember one of my first jr. nats. as a kid looking thru all the pedigree and seeing so many leader the 13th cattle in the show.  It took me quite a few years to finally grasp how much that bull realy did.  I would love to have the right cow today to use him on.  Would need some semen too I guess.
 

Okotoks

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In 1993 I went to Aldens's Dispersal sale and bought AF Shannon Margie 2308.(That was one cold weekend) She was by Dividend and out of AF Shannon Margie 924, so she was full sister to AF Margies Dream Girl, Dream Lady, Dream Gal etc. She was solid red, moderate framed easy fleshing cow with a good udder. She was part of the Emerald herd we had with Carol Kettlewell. Our1998 All That Glitters Sale included the Emerald Dispersal and 2308 went back to Rittiman's in Texas. She covered a lot of ground in her day! We still have embryos by Stonelea Winchester out of 2308. Hopefully we will get a couple implanted next year.
 

Will

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I used a bull a few years ago out of Dividend and NPS mirage.  I got a lot of really good calves and sold most of them. We lost him after only a couple years so I wished I would have kept a few more daughters.
 

oakview

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Some of the Dividends might be too tall for today, but I would bet you'd get along with calves out of one of his sons, Deer Trail Dynamite 80x.  I heard people criticize him when he was shown because he wasn't an 8 frame score, but he was deep, long, and thick from end to end.
 

aj

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Virgil Wagoner of HUBS shorthorns told me that he went and looked at dividend when he was at Dick Judy's of Mankato Ks. Virgil thought he was poor on his back end as far as legs was concerned(I spose cow hocked). So he wasn't interested in him. Mankato isn't that far down 36 highway from Norton Kansas. Anyway........there is so much difference from a bulls looks and what he breeds like. Sodhouse littleman that I raised was kin of a joke phenotypically. He had a small weaning weight 550 pounds or so. I kept him back as an experiment more than anything. He worked great.Thats why I don't understand why someone will spend 20,000$ on a grand champ bull when there is a 80% chance he won't throw thow calves the same way. Wasn't trump kind of an after thought once people saw the calves he throwed. There is a certain amount of luck and knowledge of cattle that make certain bulls great breeders. Like begets like(mainly pedgree wise). Once in a while while you will get a freak like heatwave that just breeds beyond all expectation. One wonders what great bulls were passed over because they weren't shown or didn't come out of a famous herd or whatever. Talk to me what bulls calves look like rather than how snazzy he looks. I remember one one of hunsleys quotes went something like "alot of champions bred to champions result in pretty plain cattle". Phenotype vs. Genotype vs. just hype. I t makes things interesting.jmo
 

mark tenenbaum

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oakview said:
Some of the Dividends might be too tall for today, but I would bet you'd get along with calves out of one of his sons, Deer Trail Dynamite 80x.  I heard people criticize him when he was shown because he wasn't an 8 frame score, but he was deep, long, and thick from end to end.
////I was an insider (of sorts) at Deertrail-they had some unusually cool cows with maine backgrounds and didnt say much-Harold SLICK Hoskins of Centralia KS was more or less the king of questionable breeding-thats why Exclusives Cary-Outlooks Madam-and Studly (just to name a few) were so great and so not what the papers read.Dynomite was phenotypically a bull 30 years ahead-the last semen went to Miller-in ND-He went to iowa (first I believe) to the folks who had the Leggs(LEN RU TA LEADER) deal that Christian (kaba) used so much of-IMAGINE THAT. Some of the best BW  EPD bulls that went places like Eastern Canada from LGS (Lawrence) or Deertrail were SONS of  a beautiful big red cow-who was the actual daughter of (Covino? Vistas Sentra?) jumping a fence in 1991?
 

Okotoks

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mark tenenbaum said:
oakview said:
Some of the Dividends might be too tall for today, but I would bet you'd get along with calves out of one of his sons, Deer Trail Dynamite 80x.  I heard people criticize him when he was shown because he wasn't an 8 frame score, but he was deep, long, and thick from end to end.
////I was an insider (of sorts) at Deertrail-they had some unusually cool cows with maine backgrounds and didnt say much-Harold SLICK Hoskins of Centralia KS was more or less the king of questionable breeding-thats why Exclusives Cary-Outlooks Madam-and Studly (just to name a few) were so great and so not what the papers read.Dynomite was phenotypically a bull 30 years ahead-the last semen went to Miller-in ND-He went to iowa (first I believe) to the folks who had the Leggs(LEN RU TA LEADER) deal that Christian (kaba) used so much of-IMAGINE THAT. Some of the best BW  EPD bulls that went places like Eastern Canada from LGS (Lawrence) or Deertrail were SONS of  a beautiful big red cow-who was the actual daughter of (Covino? Vistas Sentra?) jumping a fence in 1991?
What about Deer Trail Rhinestone? We had a daughter of her by AF Divivdend's Impact,Deer Trail Rachel. She was a good cow. There is a calf in the Agribition sale from Muridale that goes back to her. Deer Trail Awesome and Deer Trail Desperado were both out of Rhinestone.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Deertrail Rhinestone-She was a beutifiull smooth thick cow,There woild have been a full brother to the cow you refer to  (by Dividends Impact) called Bullwhip (I think-used in Ohio). Being out of a hilltop cow she went back to some salleur-and who knows what. Awesome was a freak of nature he was so big. I think Desperado was the better breeding bull. Funny thing was-thier full sister-(dam to Navigater-by Overtime) was quite moderate -as was Navigater. Overtime produced some of the biggest cows Ive ever seen-he was a solid red full irish-sib to BBS-Hopes Primetime.
 

mark tenenbaum

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aj said:
What happened to Studley? I think I saw him shown in a Kansas State Fair.
///-Studly won alot of shows including Louisville-1997.He was a bonified calving ease deal -out of Exclusives Carie-(actually sired by Vistas Sentra-Hoskins Flash bull-fullblood maine). He didnt knick with alot of cattle-but my best Cumberland doner was sired by him-in 1999-Stella-she was 4th high seller of the breed as a caf at $14000-which wouldnt even be a sale average some places today.
 
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