Defect free vs dirty bulls

[YoungGunCattle]

There are alot of different opinions about dirty (Defect carrying, specifically th & pha) bulls. Some say that it is ok to use them as long as your cow is clean and you wont have any problems. Whats yall's opinion.

 

[Gargan]

as long as ur cows ve been tested clean, then theres noway u will have a deformed calf. U ve a 50% chance of your calf being a carrier of either trait but thats it. i try to keep my cows clean so that i can specifically use th carrier bulls. this is just my practice tho.

 

[kfacres]

Honest, it depends on what stage of production you are in... if you are in the building phase: better avoid them... will make your life miserable in 5 years when you're trying to find something different- or the same pedigree and clean-- to mate to your carriers ( situation I am in right now of not being able to find a double clean- respectable pedigreed Shorthorn bull to use.)...

If your cow herd is where you want it-- use it as a terminal cross to your advantage. 

i used to preach stay away from carriers-- until I had my first THC calf born-- and thought.. boy she's good.. what's it going to hurt to have one?  Then found out one cow I had purchased prior to testing was PHAC-- so again, i thought, what's one going to hurt?  Since, that THC cow always has my best heifer calves, and i've kept 2 THC and one possible double dirty one back--  I figured- heck, if I have to breed around 1, may as well make it 2- then 3..

now where's the end point?  My search for a bull that does not trace to a particular pair of bulls-- and is double clean- has been going on for months-- and i've finally found a couple of options--after TONS of research... One is a 3/4 blood, and the other an old pedigreed bull...  It's hard to find a genetically pedigree that's acceptable- with a phenotype that's acceptable, and double clean...  And I'd guess that to be maybe not as much true for other breeds-- due to the lack of shorthorn genetic diversity in the Shorthorn breed..

 

[twistedhshowstock]

As long as your cows are either tested clean or clean by pedigree then you can breed to whatever you want with no risk of loosing a calf or cow because of the defect.  If you breed to a dirty bull then you would probably want to have any replacements produced tested just to know.  Personally I dont test everything, it all depends on the individual.  A client has a Double Stuff x Double Vision heifer, everything on the pedigree just about is double dirty, as are the parents we arent going to test this heifer, just going to assume she is double dirty and only use clean bulls on her.  I also look at individual heifers to, unless I really want to breed to a specific bull that is a carrier I wont always test the heifers because there are more and more clean bulls that I like coming on the market. 
P.S. The same goes in reverse, you can breed a clean bull to any cow and not have a defect show itself, but if the cow is dirty still a 50% chance that calf will be a carrier.

 

[knabe]

Is a dead one a carrier?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

Well I guess a dead one could be, but not necessarily.  All depends on why it is dead???

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Honest, it depends on what stage of production you are in... if you are in the building phase: better avoid them... will make your life miserable in 5 years when you're trying to find something different- or the same pedigree and clean-- to mate to your carriers ( situation I am in right now of not being able to find a double clean- respectable pedigreed Shorthorn bull to use.)...//// RS After Hours,GB Daybreak Express,Supersport,JBS Da Big Hurt,JSF Addicted,MTS Special Effect,Studers Winter Puff-even PaDoh Boxer,and a host of others-THAT IS-If you like thick cattle-several of these are hiefer bulls with good EPDS and alot of records-ALL are clean-both ways. O0

If your cow herd is where you want it-- use it as a terminal cross to your advantage. 

i used to preach stay away from carriers-- until I had my first THC calf born-- and thought.. boy she's good.. what's it going to hurt to have one?  Then found out one cow I had purchased prior to testing was PHAC-- so again, i thought, what's one going to hurt?  Since, that THC cow always has my best heifer calves, and i've kept 2 THC and one possible double dirty one back--  I figured- heck, if I have to breed around 1, may as well make it 2- then 3..

now where's the end point?  My search for a bull that does not trace to a particular pair of bulls-- and is double clean- has been going on for months-- and i've finally found a couple of options--after TONS of research... One is a 3/4 blood, and the other an old pedigreed bull...  It's hard to find a genetically pedigree that's acceptable- with a phenotype that's acceptable, and double clean...  And I'd guess that to be maybe not as much true for other breeds-- due to the lack of shorthorn genetic diversity in the Shorthorn breed..

 

[showsteerdlux]

There are alot of different opinions about dirty (Defect carrying, specifically th & pha) bulls. Some say that it is ok to use them as long as your cow is clean and you wont have any problems. Whats yall's opinion.

A lot of people breed dirty dirty and still get away with it when it comes to the TH deal. Wouldn't dare try it on PHA, but iut sure does increase the chances of a good one playing with it on the TH deal. I know of a good many people that are breeding Monopoly to carrier HW cows to soften them up and pretty them up etc while the carrier female has all the bone and hip. Add the 2 together and you have a  calf that has the look, the hair, the bone, and the butt.

 

[kfacres]

Mark... now that's almost a completely different list of bulls you gave me before...  I think I'm almost settled on 2+2, and that R/W clean heatseeker son from Ohio for now...

 

[ZNT]

We have chosen to keep our herd, and market clean bulls that any of our customers, including semen customers, can use on ANY of their cows without worries.